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Texas plumber wants $1 million from dealership that sold his truck to jihadists

Hatuey said:
Good. The least they could have done was remove the damn sticker before selling.... wait... why is Ford selling **** to terrorists?
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they didnt

they sold the vehicle at an auction

probably a public one

anyone can go and bid on the units

and once you pay for the unit, you can take it anywhere you please
 
Hatuey said:
That wasn't why I asked. I ask because I'd hope they'd be able to track to some degree what continents these trucks end up in. I don't know exactly how the truck got there, but it seems like a serious problem if cars are flowing out of the US and into ISIS hands. No?
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there is a HUGE market for used trucks, and used SUV's for overseas markets

there are very few new dealers in say Africa....or the Middle East

And when you buy there, you pay a huge premium to what we pay here....

in fact, american manufacturers WILL NOT allow new units to be shipped overseas without their consent

But used vehicles are a whole different ballgame....and they will buy and ship those in containers 8-12 vehicles at a time

Buy here for 10k, sell there for 25k....minus the 3-4k shipping costs

It is a huge operation....and a cutthroat business
 
ludin said:
you are not correct vebal contracts are just as valid as written ones in courts of law.
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Not if they can't be proven, and verbal contracts are notoriously hard to prove in many cases.
 
Hatuey said:
That wasn't why I asked. I ask because I'd hope they'd be able to track to some degree what continents these trucks end up in. I don't know exactly how the truck got there, but it seems like a serious problem if cars are flowing out of the US and into ISIS hands. No?
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No more so than any other products, including lots of real military hardware that the US gave to the (fleeing?) Iraqi troops which were left to ISIS. That is one of the problems when you consider the ISIS (and other terror groups) host nations to be allies.
 
Kal'Stang said:
By the dealership stopping him from removing the decal and by them obviously not removing it they became responsible for how that decal is perceived imo.

Side note: I'm actually surprised that he's asking just 1 million. Not often I see people suing a major company for that measly amount anymore.
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The question will be how many owners the truck has had between the dealership and the terrorists.

If the dealership sold it an an auction as is, as they do with most trade ins, what responsibility would they have to this seller?
 
OrphanSlug said:
He very well may get it, unsure about this but the lawsuit has at least enough merit to see the inside of a courtroom.

The question will end up being about duty of and agreement with the dealership. Was there a provision or some level of agreement (even verbal) that the dealership would remove the logos from the truck before resale, and not many articles even touch on that point. Since a civil court matter cannot really include actions of the auction buyer who got the truck out of the nation, about all we can look at is the dealership.
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Wouldn't it turn on foreseeability? While it is foreseeable that failure to remove the logo would lead others to associate the purchaser with Mark-1, how foreseeable is it that the purchaser would transport the truck all the way to Syria, then sell it to ISIS?

Another problem is that the lawsuit apparently says the dealership stopped him from removing the decal because it would damage the paint, and that the dealership didn't inform him that it would not remove the decal. He seems to have simply assumed that they would repaint the truck before sale, but, they never said anything about doing that. It also wasn't in the contract. I don't see anything that implies that they would repaint the truck.

If that was a concern of his....one might expect him to have either repainted it himself or insisted that the sale contract contain a provision requiring them to paint it.
 
ludin said:
the problem is that they forced him to sell the truck as is.
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How can a business legally force an individual to sell a product to the business?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is not what he is claiming:



When did the dealer indicate that they would remove the decals and damage the paint? He is complaining that the dealer transferred the truck "as is" just as he did which is not incomprehensible in the least.
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I wasn't making a point about him - I was just contrasting his experience with mine on the topic of decals (etc).
 
I have always hated Car salesman and dealers in General.

Now, thanks to the internet, the Car Pro Show and my uncanny instincts to sniff out a rat I can buy a Car with out the threat of losing my temper and threatening to snap the neck of some scam artist car salesman. ( ok, never threatened anyone but have created a scene or two )

As for the dealership selling the F250 to ISIS, I'm sure they had no idea where it was heading so I'm not sure he'll win
 
ttwtt78640 said:
No more so than any other products, including lots of real military hardware that the US gave to the (fleeing?) Iraqi troops which were left to ISIS. That is one of the problems when you consider the ISIS (and other terror groups) host nations to be allies.
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I don't think your analogy works. It's one thing for weapons/trucks to be stolen/taken during warfare. Taking the enemy's resources has happened since dawn of warfare. Its expected. I don't think we should be allowing cars from the US to be shipped to that part of the world when we know there is a possibility they might be used by terrorists over there. It would have been like allowing Japan to buy come and buy GMs from US car dealers while WWII was going on. I mean, there is a possibility that it may have happened, but the government shouldn't just stand by and let it happen.
 
Hatuey said:
I don't think your analogy works. It's one thing for weapons/trucks to be stolen/taken during warfare. Taking the enemy's resources has happened since dawn of warfare. Its expected. I don't think we should be allowing cars from the US to be shipped to that part of the world when we know there is a possibility they might be used by terrorists over there. It would have been like allowing Japan to buy come and buy GMs from US car dealers while WWII was going on. I mean, there is a possibility that it may have happened, but the government shouldn't just stand by and let it happen.
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Are we at war with that part of the world? Is there some sort of trade embargo, that I am not aware of, being violated?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Are we at war with that part of the world? Is there some sort of trade embargo, that I am not aware of, being violated?
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We're not at war with that part of the world (I don't know how you can be at war with what is essentially... well a part of the world), but we are at war with people who control that part of the world or some of it. A trade embargo would not be something unheard of when a war against whomever.
 
ABC News covered this story last night too.

It gives credibility to the claims that somehow, in some way, sources within the US facilitate the success of ISIS. The truck was shipped out of Houston to Turkey, according to ABC.
 
Hatuey said:
We're not at war with that part of the world (I don't know how you can be at war with what is essentially... well a part of the world), but we are at war with people who control that part of the world or some of it. A trade embargo would not be something unheard of when a war against whomever.
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You tried to assert that a band of roving terrorists being equivalent to the nation of Japan as enemies. Terrorists are present in many nations, even the USA, but that is not a sound basis for stopping trade with that nation. On the other hand, if a nation (like Japan) is at war with the US then such a trade embargo makes perfect sense.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You tried to assert that a band of roving terrorists being equivalent to the nation of Japan as enemies.
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Nope, I suggested that we don't sell to people when we're at war with them. Japan is an example of that. Other examples include: Cuba, USSR. They're just equal in that we're were supposedly at war with them and imposed embargo/trade restrictions as a result. Why shouldn't the same apply to areas controlled by ISIS?

Terrorists are present in many nations, even the USA, but that is not a sound basis for stopping trade with that nation. On the other hand, if a nation (like Japan) is at war with the US then such a trade embargo makes perfect sense.
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Terrorists being present in some parts of the world is not the issue, terrorists controlling large swaths of land that American cars end up is. You're deliberately misrepresenting my position.
 
Fenton said:
I have always hated Car salesman and dealers in General.

Now, thanks to the internet, the Car Pro Show and my uncanny instincts to sniff out a rat I can buy a Car with out the threat of losing my temper and threatening to snap the neck of some scam artist car salesman. ( ok, never threatened anyone but have created a scene or two )

As for the dealership selling the F250 to ISIS, I'm sure they had no idea where it was heading so I'm not sure he'll win
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Fenton

You arent alone

I have been in the business over 30 years now....and have had to win back customers that were so put off from other dealers

I think i have heard every horror story there is to hear....from trade keys being thrown on rooftops, to young ladies being "we owed" a six cylinder engine

There have always been a few crooks in my business....we root them out fairly quickly, but they can do a lot of damage pretty quickly

And it makes it that much harder for honest dealers to actually conduct business....

But i have seen huge changes over the years....less haggling now....a lot of my customers have their price before they ever walk in the door

Yes....we are in business to make a profit....but it can be, and should be, a win win proposition

Customer gets a good vehicle at a fair price....with little or no issues while buying....

That is what MOST dealers are trying to get to....still a few dinosaurs left....who want to keep things the way they were

But they are getting fewer and fewer every year
 
Thoreau72 said:
ABC News covered this story last night too.

It gives credibility to the claims that somehow, in some way, sources within the US facilitate the success of ISIS. The truck was shipped out of Houston to Turkey, according to ABC.
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How do we know the gunners are not somebody other than ISIS.

It's not like all ISIS members wear hats and jackets with their multicolored logo.....or mark their logo on vehicles.
 
Dang I can't believe our ally Turkey is somehow allowing goods to fall into the hands of ISIS. I'm sure this was an accident. /sarcasm.
 
SMTA said:
How do we know the gunners are not somebody other than ISIS.

It's not like all ISIS members wear hats and jackets with their multicolored logo.....or mark their logo on vehicles.
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My guess is that the mercenary business is doing real good these days. Who one works for is the entity that pays you, we're all whores somehow or other. :mrgreen:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It seems that the dealership did exactly what he did and simply sold the truck "as is". What, exactly, prevented him from removing his personalized touches from that truck? Stupid is as stupid does.
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I feel for the guy, but removing the logo was his responsibility.
 
gdgyva said:
Fenton

You arent alone

I have been in the business over 30 years now....and have had to win back customers that were so put off from other dealers

I think i have heard every horror story there is to hear....from trade keys being thrown on rooftops, to young ladies being "we owed" a six cylinder engine

There have always been a few crooks in my business....we root them out fairly quickly, but they can do a lot of damage pretty quickly

And it makes it that much harder for honest dealers to actually conduct business....

But i have seen huge changes over the years....less haggling now....a lot of my customers have their price before they ever walk in the door

Yes....we are in business to make a profit....but it can be, and should be, a win win proposition

Customer gets a good vehicle at a fair price....with little or no issues while buying....

That is what MOST dealers are trying to get to....still a few dinosaurs left....who want to keep things the way they were

But they are getting fewer and fewer every year
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I have had good luck/service with the dealer I go to. I tell them give me your best price while still being "fair" to you and they have which is why I keep going back to them.
 
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