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Britain can be a stronger ally for America if it leaves the EU

gunner said:
discussing an argument against the EU with you, is akin to telling Mao the great famine existed. Moreover, your continued vitriol of the UK is as putrid as ever.
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If the anti-EU crowd could actually come with arguments and back them up, then there could be a discussion. But saying "we will have it better" does not cut it in an discussion, when you cant explain what will be better and prove it.
 
Britain can be a stronger ally for America if it leaves the EU
Europe is failing to invest in its security because it has learnt to free ride on America
The European Union represents so much of what the modern Republican Party opposes
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Britain should do what is best for Britain's interests first, not America's or the EU's and I would argue the same for any country if I were a citizen of that country.

Why does the US want us in the EU anyway? Would that make a difference to wars we have supported the US in? Would it change the position vis a vis nuclear deterrent and our position with Russia?

Same for the EU - (PeteEU's "kick us out and kick us on the way out" aside) why does the EU want us in the EU anyway and what do we offer militarily that would benefit either the EU or the US?

It's all poppycock and my position now the UK seems to be going for the two tier Europe position is that I think we will get that and most of the EU will support that as there are other countries who do not want to go for joining the Euro and all the other elements of closer union.

Regarding us being a better ally for the US outside the EU - that's even worse poppycock; we have already sacrificed many of our young in support of US wars and interventions; what more do they want? The greatest influence on UN policy and opinion lies in America and whatever we do will have zero affect.
 
PeteEU said:
Err there is nothing there we did not know already. It is a regurgitation of his talking points..pure and simple. No details, nothing new.
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For me it was, I have seen reports of some issues before, but I do not follow UK politics.
Though the point brought forwards do seem to make sense.
 
JANFU said:
PeteEU said:
Err there is nothing there we did not know already. It is a regurgitation of his talking points..pure and simple. No details, nothing new.
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For me it was, I have seen reports of some issues before, but I do not follow UK politics.
Though the point brought forwards do seem to make sense.
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They're not talking points because there would have been a reaction by EU leaders to that effect; other states would have said that too.

This page may give you a better set of answers about what the aims of the points raised are and the consequences.
 
Higgins86 said:
We'll see. Too be honest I would be more than happy to see Scotland leave, the amount of power the SNP holds considering the population of Scotland is absurd.
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They elected the SNP. Why is that absurd?

Eric7216 said:
US to leaving the Anglosphere and heading to the Hispanic community. Or something. Britain should stay in Europe. It would be nice if the US would ask to join the British Commonwealth but highly unlikely. Even if we did, the Commonwealth would reject us.
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Why would the US join the Commonwealth? The US doesn't have a monarch who is head of state.
 
le bouffon said:
Why would the US join the Commonwealth? The US doesn't have a monarch who is head of state.
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Why not? South Sudan has applied for membership. There are 53 countries in the Commonwealth including 32 that do not have the monarch as the head of state. 2.3 billion people live in the Commonwealth with a GDP of $10.7 trillion. The rules to join are:
have had a constitutional association with an existing Commonwealth member; that it should comply with Commonwealth values, principles and priorities as set out in the Harare Declaration; and that it should accept Commonwealth norms and conventions.[53]
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I think that the US can meet that. Would they accept South Sudan and reject the US?
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Britain should do what is best for Britain's interests first, not America's or the EU's and I would argue the same for any country if I were a citizen of that country.

Why does the US want us in the EU anyway? Would that make a difference to wars we have supported the US in? Would it change the position vis a vis nuclear deterrent and our position with Russia?

Same for the EU - (PeteEU's "kick us out and kick us on the way out" aside) why does the EU want us in the EU anyway and what do we offer militarily that would benefit either the EU or the US?

It's all poppycock and my position now the UK seems to be going for the two tier Europe position is that I think we will get that and most of the EU will support that as there are other countries who do not want to go for joining the Euro and all the other elements of closer union.

Regarding us being a better ally for the US outside the EU - that's even worse poppycock; we have already sacrificed many of our young in support of US wars and interventions; what more do they want? The greatest influence on UN policy and opinion lies in America and whatever we do will have zero affect.
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What the hell is poppycock? lol British for bull****?
 
Phoenix One UK said:
The moment I saw this one, I thought about all you posters here, and would be certainly interested in your views on issue. So, what do you think?
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I think the USA and the Federal Reserve/IMF, need UK as a power in the ruling Banking conglomerate. The Fed, IMF, ECB, BIS, BoE, and BoJ are the ruling powers of 60% of the economic World and work toward World domination of all economic areas. The UK split would damage this Economic Unity and Power Control. I'm totally against banks controlling the World, ergo if UK pulls out of the EU, that is great. We need to pull the plug on banks running the World. This is a good place to start.
 
DaveFagan said:
I think the USA and the Federal Reserve/IMF, need UK as a power in the ruling Banking conglomerate. The Fed, IMF, ECB, BIS, BoE, and BoJ are the ruling powers of 60% of the economic World and work toward World domination of all economic areas. The UK split would damage this Economic Unity and Power Control. I'm totally against banks controlling the World, ergo if UK pulls out of the EU, that is great. We need to pull the plug on banks running the World. This is a good place to start.
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Where did the Greek bailout money go?

Less than 10% of the money was used by the government for reforming its economy and safeguarding weaker members of society

Only a small fraction of the €240bn (£170bn) total bailout money Greece received in 2010 and 2012 found its way into the government’s coffers to soften the blow of the 2008 financial crash and fund reform programmes.

Most of the money went to the banks that lent Greece funds before the crash.

Unlike most of Europe, which ran up large budget deficits to protect pensioners and welfare recipients, Athens was then forced to dramatically reduce its deficit by squeezing pensions and cutting the minimum wage.

The troika of lenders first stepped in during the spring of 2010 after Athens could no longer afford to finance €310bn borrowed from a wide range of major European banks.

Where did the Greek bailout money go? | World news | The Guardian
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A valid post, and I included this one for those unfamiliar with what happens when a member state receives a bailout in Eurozone. Recipients of such bailouts see very little of it, and in Greece's case, it has problems paying the interest let alone bailout received.

The interesting thing about euro is that it is a currency that needed propping up by other member states in EU. It is also a currency the then British PM Tony Blair attempted to have UK join until stopped by Brown. As with EU in/out Referendum now, at time there was same push to have UK adopt the euro, and by same people who insist the UK would be better off in EU than out. To coin a phrase used by out camp, "They were wrong then, and are wrong now".

I should add here that not one member state in Eurozone gave their population a say on whether or not to adopt the euro, not even Germany.
 
le bouffon said:
They elected the SNP. Why is that absurd?



Why would the US join the Commonwealth? The US doesn't have a monarch who is head of state.
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Its absurd that they hold so many seats given the population of Scotland.
 
England, Wales, Scotland, can be better countries if they leave Great Britain.
 
Higgins86 said:
Its absurd that they hold so many seats given the population of Scotland.
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Given how many throughout the country feel that Westminster is ignoring those outside of London, I don't see it as a surprise.
 
Phoenix One UK said:
I do not think it matters who said what, but some do. The Europhiles in UK for example jumped on certain American statement that implied the USA would not trade with UK if it left the block. I believe someone started a thread on that issue within European forum. In any event, he was shown to be wrong.

I note you are in Dublin, and I had watched Irish concerns about how a Brexit would effect Ireland. Personally, I do not believe Ireland has anything to worry about, but the only way you will really know that is if and when it happens.
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Not sure this responds to my criticism of the lack of content in the article.

Do you have any arguments in favour of the op position?
 
Ben K. said:
Not sure this responds to my criticism of the lack of content in the article.

Do you have any arguments in favour of the op position?
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Not sure to which you are referring. I believe someone started a thread on first, but here is link to just one that made headlines in UK: US warns Britain: If you leave EU you face barriers to trading with America | Politics | The Guardian

The second would be more difficult, as I note Ireland politicians referring to Brexit good/bad just as they are elsewhere in UK. In any case, here is one such headline: 'Brexit' wouldn't ruin Northern Ireland economy - leadership favorite | Reuters

As stated in post you quoted, the only way to know for certain is if and when it happens. Please note that I did say I did not believe Ireland has anything to worry about, and I base that on relations that existed prior to UK joining the EU (then EEC), which I expect would continue as such, or be improved upon. An exit from EU does not translate to UK intending to terminate trade with anyone on exit.
 
Phoenix One UK said:
Not sure to which you are referring. I believe someone started a thread on first, but here is link to just one that made headlines in UK: US warns Britain: If you leave EU you face barriers to trading with America | Politics | The Guardian

The second would be more difficult, as I note Ireland politicians referring to Brexit good/bad just as they are elsewhere in UK. In any case, here is one such headline: 'Brexit' wouldn't ruin Northern Ireland economy - leadership favorite | Reuters

As stated in post you quoted, the only way to know for certain is if and when it happens. Please note that I did say I did not believe Ireland has anything to worry about, and I base that on relations that existed prior to UK joining the EU (then EEC), which I expect would continue as such, or be improved upon. An exit from EU does not translate to UK intending to terminate trade with anyone on exit.
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I'm not talking about Ireland. I'm looking for a more compelling argument about how the UK will be a better ally to the U.S. Outside the EU than what's found in the op.
 
Ben K. said:
I'm not talking about Ireland. I'm looking for a more compelling argument about how the UK will be a better ally to the U.S. Outside the EU than what's found in the op.
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Damned if I know. In or out, the UK are allies with USA. It was headline that grabbed me, and I immediately thought of this site. I am fairly sure I did not infer otherwise, and believe stating as much within first post.
 
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