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NThe truth emerges: Here’s how the US fueled the rise of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

Beaudreaux said:
Well shucks. That makes the attacks in Paris understandable and justifiable.
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Pretty sure that wasn't stated anywhere. These forms of emotional deflection are meant only to prevent discussion of a system and the attempt to find a solution. The level of military interventionism we have taken in the ME has, in part, led to the environment ripe for the emergence of even more radicalized terrorist groups such as ISIS. Actions have consequences, and if you want to obtain some end goal, you must understand the consequences of the actions taken. Bush didn't. Obama didn't. The current level of extreme Islamic terrorism is in part due to their ignorance and commitment to that ignorance.
 
DVSentinel said:
So schools do not limit speech? They are publicly funded. It is ok to wear KKK apparel to school. Or Appealer with images of guns or support of the second amendment?
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In case you didn't notice, schools have always had dress codes. In fact, they used to be far stricter during the "good ol' conservative days."
 
CanadaJohn said:
That would be wrong as well. ISIS began in Syria, not Iraq.................
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Errhh, no.

Even with having renamed itself Lord know how many times since, it began with Abu Musab-al-Zarqawi bringing Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (founded in Jordan) into the game in Iraq by a large part initiating the insurgency there after 2003.

That the later outbreak of the Syrian civil war provided them with opportunities is a given, yet the beginnings precede Syria by years.
 
Geoist said:
Actually, ISIS began in Jordan. But I did not say it began in Iraq. I said its power rose in Iraq.



Here's the reality: Obama followed Bush's agreed-upon plan for leaving Iraq. Obama wanted to leave 10,000 troops as "advisors" past the withdrawal date, but Iraq's Parliament refused to allow immunity for US soldiers.

So what would you choose: to withdraw (which was what the majority of US citizens wanted at this point), to leave our soldiers vulnerable to Iraqi prosecution, or overthrow that democratically elected government?




No Iraq War means no disaffected. Al Qaeda in Iraq (which ISIS would spring from) grew in strength because we were there.




I am confused by this statement. Nowhere have I said ISIS was a friend to democracy or that Bush didn't have some naive idea that he could bring democracy to a foreign land by force.
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to the bolded.

The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004. The group participated in the Iraqi insurgency that followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. In January 2006, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) in October 2006.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
 
Chagos said:
Errhh, no.

Even with having renamed itself Lord know how many times since, it began with Abu Musab-al-Zarqawi bringing Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (founded in Jordan) into the game in Iraq by a large part initiating the insurgency there after 2003.

That the later outbreak of the Syrian civil war provided them with opportunities is a given, yet the beginnings precede Syria by years.
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Precisely correct!
 
Actually, the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 marked the beginning of modern mujaheddin waging violent jihad in the Middle East.
 
Armed by the US, that's true.
 
DVSentinel said:
Funny how that dress code only oppresses things the left wants to suppress.
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Are you saying conservatives don't believe in dress codes. What a ridiculous and baseless claim.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Just what did President G. W. Bush do to launch the terrorist campaign that started long before he took office and that hit American soil less than 9 months after he was sworn in? Identify the actions or policies he enacted while Governor of Texas that caused terrorism throughout the Middle East. How about the actions or policies he enacted from late January 2001 to September 2001? Have you got anything?

This obsessive need to blame President Bush for everything that isn't right in the world is asinine at best.
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Only a fool would blame anybody but Bush for the invasion of Iraq. He made that the centerpiece of his entire foreign policy from day one. Get that thru your head and you will be a lot smarter.
 
Risky Thicket said:
If wasn't enough that the west greatly encouraged the ****storm in the Middle East with Bush's War, we can't seem to leave it alone. The west is responsible for the rise of ISIS. Oh, you're surprised?

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I wish I could like your post 100 times. If we recall, in the build up to Iraq, there were videos released of a dead American being dragged through the street behind a pickup truck... Turned out that the dead American worked for Black Water. So, what exactly do we think that black water did to piss people off? And that was not the only country doing that at the time.

It's the insidiousness of latent attacks of a violent and military nature by "Soldiers of Fortune" and their capitalist financiers, backed by American foreign policies that drives these people to attack back.

With any luck, hackers like Anonymous and other whistle blowers will be revealing more and more so that we may finally clean house.
 
Chagos said:
Errhh, no.

Even with having renamed itself Lord know how many times since, it began with Abu Musab-al-Zarqawi bringing Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad (founded in Jordan) into the game in Iraq by a large part initiating the insurgency there after 2003.

That the later outbreak of the Syrian civil war provided them with opportunities is a given, yet the beginnings precede Syria by years.
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It is apparent that some will not face up to historical fact.
Iraq, wrong war, wrong reasons, and led directly to an Iraqi failed state.
Not on the US is to blame, but the coalition of the dumb, and add in the Malaki Govt who exacerbated the situaion with death squads operating and nothing done. Alienating the Sunni who with the US and the Anbar Awakening put AQ on the run.
Maliki assisted in making Iraq an Iranian client state. Continued with Hussein's polices, of death squads, corruption, but his was different. Maliki targeted Sunni's, revenge and blood feuds were then the results of his action.
He created the conditions for Daesh to thrive.

Anbar Awakening: Displacing Al-Qaeda From Its Stronghold in Western Iraq | Institute for the Study of War

The Anbar Awakening indicates the actions needed to convince the local population to support the government and expel enemy forces. This element of counter-insurgency success required coalition and ISF forces to work as a team while conducting simultaneous military operations and reconstruction efforts. After months of consistent cooperation, U.S. and Iraqi soldiers won support from critical members of the local population, the tribal sheiks. Although al-Qaeda attempted to regain support by terrorizing Iraqi civilians with suicide attacks and chemical weapons, the provincial government regrouped and reconnected with the central government in Baghdad. This was a critical first step toward establishing a working relationship among the Iraqi capital and its provinces.
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iguanaman said:
Only a fool would blame anybody but Bush for the invasion of Iraq. He made that the centerpiece of his entire foreign policy from day one. Get that thru your head and you will be a lot smarter.
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I clearly don't need tips on improving intelligence from you based on that post. The point you missed in your desperate need to blame all the world's ills on GWB was that terrorism was in action in the Middle East long before Bush and now long after he's gone. But hey, if your "brilliant" world revolves around GWB, good for you.
 
jet57 said:
I wish I could like your post 100 times. If we recall, in the build up to Iraq, there were videos released of a dead American being dragged through the street behind a pickup truck... Turned out that the dead American worked for Black Water. So, what exactly do we think that black water did to piss people off? And that was not the only country doing that at the time.

It's the insidiousness of latent attacks of a violent and military nature by "Soldiers of Fortune" and their capitalist financiers, backed by American foreign policies that drives these people to attack back.

With any luck, hackers like Anonymous and other whistle blowers will be revealing more and more so that we may finally clean house.
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There are two books by Sibel Edmonds which I recommend without hesitation to anyone who would like the opportunity to see a different perspective on the topic and more.

Classified Woman. This book is impossible to put down, and though documented is difficult to believe, and nothing short of stunning. It will change the way you look at the world and our government. If you want to know what was happening in intelligence (or not) before and just after 9/11, this is the book. The US government will not (cannot) refute what Edmonds has reported and documented in this book.

The Lone Gladio , which is a very well written book that should make an blockbuster movie.
 
Montecresto said:
to the bolded.

The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004. The group participated in the Iraqi insurgency that followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. In January 2006, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) in October 2006.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
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That is correct. I should have reworded it to "origins in Jordan."
 
jet57 said:
I wish I could like your post 100 times. If we recall, in the build up to Iraq, there were videos released of a dead American being dragged through the street behind a pickup truck... Turned out that the dead American worked for Black Water. So, what exactly do we think that black water did to piss people off? And that was not the only country doing that at the time.

It's the insidiousness of latent attacks of a violent and military nature by "Soldiers of Fortune" and their capitalist financiers, backed by American foreign policies that drives these people to attack back.

With any luck, hackers like Anonymous and other whistle blowers will be revealing more and more so that we may finally clean house.
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What build up to Iraq are you claiming the contractors were killed in.

What magazine did you copy that second to last paragraph from. Sounds exactly what someone who really doesn't know what they are talking about but wants to sound smart would type. Just throw some buzz words into a sentence and hope for the best huh.
 
jet57 said:
I wish I could like your post 100 times. If we recall, in the build up to Iraq, there were videos released of a dead American being dragged through the street behind a pickup truck... Turned out that the dead American worked for Black Water. So, what exactly do we think that black water did to piss people off? And that was not the only country doing that at the time.

It's the insidiousness of latent attacks of a violent and military nature by "Soldiers of Fortune" and their capitalist financiers, backed by American foreign policies that drives these people to attack back.

With any luck, hackers like Anonymous and other whistle blowers will be revealing more and more so that we may finally clean house.
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1,000 times.
 
braindrain said:
What build up to Iraq are you claiming the contractors were killed in.

What magazine did you copy that second to last paragraph from. Sounds exactly what someone who really doesn't know what they are talking about but wants to sound smart would type. Just throw some buzz words into a sentence and hope for the best huh.
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the incident he's referring to didn't happen in "the built up to Iraq".. it happened in 2006, outside of Baghdad.... and they were not Blackwater operators, but US army personnel.

5 groups took responsibility for that attack... one of them being Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn( ISIL's old name)... all 5 Sunni Islamist groups unified under the heading of the Iraqi Mujahideen Shura Council.

he literally doesn't know what he's talking about....he probably believes ISIL was formed in Iraq simply to fight Americans... ignoring they formed in Jordan to fight the Jordanian government, and Shiites throughout the region.
Iraq certainly gave them fertile grounds to grow , though...lots of Shiites, Americans, and other apostates to hunt down and kill in Iraq.

in any event, he's just another far lefty holding terrorists blameless for the actions, preferring to blame everyone else for making them mad... and throwing in some inane jabs at capitalists as well.
 
Thrilla said:
the incident he's referring to didn't happen in "the built up to Iraq".. it happened in 2006, outside of Baghdad.... and they were not Blackwater operators, but US army personnel.

5 groups took responsibility for that attack... one of them being Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn( ISIL's old name)... all 5 Sunni Islamist groups unified under the heading of the Iraqi Mujahideen Shura Council.

he literally doesn't know what he's talking about....he probably believes ISIL was formed in Iraq simply to fight Americans... ignoring they formed in Jordan to fight the Jordanian government, and Shiites throughout the region.
Iraq certainly gave them fertile grounds to grow , though...lots of Shiites, Americans, and other apostates to hunt down and kill in Iraq.

in any event, he's just another far lefty holding terrorists blameless for the actions, preferring to blame everyone else for making them mad... and throwing in some inane jabs at capitalists as well.
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To the bolded. Which organized the Islamic State in 2006. Interesting side note.
 
Montecresto said:
To the bolded. Which organized the Islamic State in 2006. Interesting side note.
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that's true...
it wasn't good news for the Shiites, that's for sure.

thanks Ali! ( founder of Shiite Islam,cousin and son-in-law of Muhammad )... you went and pissed off the Sunnis and now you get the "blowback"....:cool:
 
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