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Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial crisis
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...rison-role-financial-c.html?highlight=iceland
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...rison-role-financial-c.html?highlight=iceland
JumpinJack
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
We should have done this. But then, they own both the political parties.
We should have done this. But then, they own both the political parties.
Fenton
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Hehe....
The problem with this is it wasn't the Banks or the Bankers that caused the 2008 Crisis. Not in the US.
It was corrupt politicans and corrupt appointees running two iconic American institutions ( Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ) like they were ENRON on steroids and into the ground.
The two GSEs headed up by Clinton appointees and protected by Democrat law makers were the only two major Financial entities to be investigated by the SEC.
It wasn't Bankers, it was unprecedented Governmental interference into the market economy for the purposes of mandating economic and social justice.
Banks were forced to lower their lending standards after the Democrat party declared the traditional standards that had kept the mortgage industry stable for decades innately racist.
Any Bank that didn't comply was targeted by Clinton's DOJ, HUD and Federal regulators
Yea, people should be in prison, but they're Politicians, not Bankers
Hehe....
The problem with this is it wasn't the Banks or the Bankers that caused the 2008 Crisis. Not in the US.
It was corrupt politicans and corrupt appointees running two iconic American institutions ( Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ) like they were ENRON on steroids and into the ground.
The two GSEs headed up by Clinton appointees and protected by Democrat law makers were the only two major Financial entities to be investigated by the SEC.
It wasn't Bankers, it was unprecedented Governmental interference into the market economy for the purposes of mandating economic and social justice.
Banks were forced to lower their lending standards after the Democrat party declared the traditional standards that had kept the mortgage industry stable for decades innately racist.
Any Bank that didn't comply was targeted by Clinton's DOJ, HUD and Federal regulators
Yea, people should be in prison, but they're Politicians, not Bankers
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Huh? :shock:
Complex MBS packages were "lowering their lending standards"? Do you even understand finance?
Huh? :shock:
Complex MBS packages were "lowering their lending standards"? Do you even understand finance?
Fenton
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Yup ! In the early 90's Clinton put together the " Fair Lending Task Force ". Comprised of 10 Federal Agencies it's purpose was to investigate, target and prosecute Banks for " discriminatory lending practices." He also made substantial changes to Carters CRA law.
The Democrats decided that the decades old lending standards that Banks used to vet borrowers were innately discriminatory so they forced them to lower those standards through a variety of threats and regulatory actions. The problem is Banks were not discriminating against people of color. If that were the case the Federal Government wouldn't have forced them to lower their lending standards.
How successful was Clinton's attack on " racist lenders " ? Well in 1998 Janet Reno gave a speech to the community reinvestment coalition.
03-20-98: REMARKS OF THE HONORABLE JANET RENO TO THE NATIONAL COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT COALITION
" The new Community Reinvestment Act regulations enable lenders to develop customized strategic plans for meeting their obligations under the Act, and many have been developed in partnership with your local organizations. In this way you are not only helping to rebuild your communities, but you are showing bankers how to be responsible corporate citizens. In short, you can't do it just with capital, you can't do it just with people who care; we can do it together.
We want to see equal credit being offered by banks because it is the right thing to do, because the law requires it, because it is good business, because people accept it.
You've noted that since the inception of our fair lending initiative in 1992 the Department has filed and settled 13 major fair lending lawsuits. We are going to continue these efforts under the Acting Assistant Attorney General Bill Lann Lee in every way that we possibly can. We will continue to focus on discrimination in underwriting, the process of evaluating the qualifications of credit applicants. This was the issue in our suits against Shawmut in Boston, Northern Trust Company in Chicago, and First National Bank of Donna Anna in New Mexico."
The DOJ wasn't the only one suing lenders. HUD sued lenders and so did Community Activist organizations like ACORN. BANKS WERE FORCED.
Clinton also co-opted the GSE's ( Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ) into the Sub-prime market when he gave them " Affordable lending " quotas that in 1995 started at 42 %. A year earlier James Johnson ( Democrat ), then CEO of Fannie Mae committed the GSEs to 1 Trillion dollars in Sub-prime purchases.
Prior to this new affordable housing mission the GSEs never held more than 10 % in risky loans and assets. This new mandate would mean that they would have to buy 1 subprime loan for every Prime loan.
He also appointed their executive positions ( Franklin Raines ) and half of their chair positions too. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bought Trillions of dollars in risky loans, securitized them and then bundled them and sold them off as " AAA " MBSs to Capital Markets all over the world. They basically distrusted toxic assets that were guaranteed by the US Government.
In 1997 Freddie Mac created the package of toxic debt when it guaranteed and securitized 384 Million dollars in Subprime loans.
In 1999, Andrew Cuomo, then HUD Secretary at the time committed the GSEs to another 2.4 Trillion dollars in Sub-prime purchases and increased their Sub-prime quota to 50 %.
In 2004 Fannie Mae was investigated by the SEC for rampant corruption and accounting scams. In 2006 the SEC fined Fannie Mae 400 Million dollars, the largest SEC fine in American History.
In 2011, the SEC opened up a new investigation into Fannie and Freddie for hiding hundreds of Billions of dollars in worthless debt from the SEC. In 2008 the GSEs were declared insolvent holding over 5 Trillions dollars in debt, much of it worthless and toxic.
:lamo :lamo :lamo
Oh the irony !!
Yup ! In the early 90's Clinton put together the " Fair Lending Task Force ". Comprised of 10 Federal Agencies it's purpose was to investigate, target and prosecute Banks for " discriminatory lending practices." He also made substantial changes to Carters CRA law.
The Democrats decided that the decades old lending standards that Banks used to vet borrowers were innately discriminatory so they forced them to lower those standards through a variety of threats and regulatory actions. The problem is Banks were not discriminating against people of color. If that were the case the Federal Government wouldn't have forced them to lower their lending standards.
How successful was Clinton's attack on " racist lenders " ? Well in 1998 Janet Reno gave a speech to the community reinvestment coalition.
03-20-98: REMARKS OF THE HONORABLE JANET RENO TO THE NATIONAL COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT COALITION
" The new Community Reinvestment Act regulations enable lenders to develop customized strategic plans for meeting their obligations under the Act, and many have been developed in partnership with your local organizations. In this way you are not only helping to rebuild your communities, but you are showing bankers how to be responsible corporate citizens. In short, you can't do it just with capital, you can't do it just with people who care; we can do it together.
We want to see equal credit being offered by banks because it is the right thing to do, because the law requires it, because it is good business, because people accept it.
You've noted that since the inception of our fair lending initiative in 1992 the Department has filed and settled 13 major fair lending lawsuits. We are going to continue these efforts under the Acting Assistant Attorney General Bill Lann Lee in every way that we possibly can. We will continue to focus on discrimination in underwriting, the process of evaluating the qualifications of credit applicants. This was the issue in our suits against Shawmut in Boston, Northern Trust Company in Chicago, and First National Bank of Donna Anna in New Mexico."
The DOJ wasn't the only one suing lenders. HUD sued lenders and so did Community Activist organizations like ACORN. BANKS WERE FORCED.
Clinton also co-opted the GSE's ( Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ) into the Sub-prime market when he gave them " Affordable lending " quotas that in 1995 started at 42 %. A year earlier James Johnson ( Democrat ), then CEO of Fannie Mae committed the GSEs to 1 Trillion dollars in Sub-prime purchases.
Prior to this new affordable housing mission the GSEs never held more than 10 % in risky loans and assets. This new mandate would mean that they would have to buy 1 subprime loan for every Prime loan.
He also appointed their executive positions ( Franklin Raines ) and half of their chair positions too. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bought Trillions of dollars in risky loans, securitized them and then bundled them and sold them off as " AAA " MBSs to Capital Markets all over the world. They basically distrusted toxic assets that were guaranteed by the US Government.
In 1997 Freddie Mac created the package of toxic debt when it guaranteed and securitized 384 Million dollars in Subprime loans.
In 1999, Andrew Cuomo, then HUD Secretary at the time committed the GSEs to another 2.4 Trillion dollars in Sub-prime purchases and increased their Sub-prime quota to 50 %.
In 2004 Fannie Mae was investigated by the SEC for rampant corruption and accounting scams. In 2006 the SEC fined Fannie Mae 400 Million dollars, the largest SEC fine in American History.
In 2011, the SEC opened up a new investigation into Fannie and Freddie for hiding hundreds of Billions of dollars in worthless debt from the SEC. In 2008 the GSEs were declared insolvent holding over 5 Trillions dollars in debt, much of it worthless and toxic.
:lamo :lamo :lamo
Oh the irony !!
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
You didn't answer the question.
You didn't answer the question.
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
The problem with this statement, is the nature of MBS packages (mortgage-backed security). They're complex in nature, that is secured by a mortgage or collection of mortgages. The mortgages are sold to a group of individuals (a government agency or investment bank) that securitizes, or packages, the loans together into a security that investors can buy. Investment banks used this for profit, alongside government agencies. The very fact they used investment banks as a channel to make homeowners sign up for this, proves the banks were doing this willingly, to make a profit.
If they had done this though government agencies, then that's one thing. However, we clearly know investment banks did this on their own, away from government discretion, to make a profit.
The problem with this statement, is the nature of MBS packages (mortgage-backed security). They're complex in nature, that is secured by a mortgage or collection of mortgages. The mortgages are sold to a group of individuals (a government agency or investment bank) that securitizes, or packages, the loans together into a security that investors can buy. Investment banks used this for profit, alongside government agencies. The very fact they used investment banks as a channel to make homeowners sign up for this, proves the banks were doing this willingly, to make a profit.
If they had done this though government agencies, then that's one thing. However, we clearly know investment banks did this on their own, away from government discretion, to make a profit.
Fenton
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Your question made no sense. I mean your'e just another low information individual who barely has a grasp on what occurred and your'e asking me if I know anything about Finance. It pegs the irony meter so to speak.
If you want to know who lowered their lending standards read the first part of my last post. Educate yourself. I've actually spent some time researching the Sub-prime crisis and know quite a bit about it so take advantage of my extensive knowledge.
What lowered lending standards were Government threats of DOJ prosecution against lenders. I can give you a far more detailed explanation than I did in my last post of need be.
You see after 2008 the Democrats needed to concoct a false narrative to cover their extensive tracks so, they blamed the Banks and Bush. Bernie Sanders is still stuck on stupid and so is Elizabeth Warren.
They STILL think the Banks are to blame.
Democrats even got with Hollywood and made a couple of Movies. " Too Big to Fail " and " Margin Call ". Both nothing but propaganda and BS.
But no amount of propaganda can cover up the truth because they left one HELL of a paper trail.
Your question made no sense. I mean your'e just another low information individual who barely has a grasp on what occurred and your'e asking me if I know anything about Finance. It pegs the irony meter so to speak.
If you want to know who lowered their lending standards read the first part of my last post. Educate yourself. I've actually spent some time researching the Sub-prime crisis and know quite a bit about it so take advantage of my extensive knowledge.
What lowered lending standards were Government threats of DOJ prosecution against lenders. I can give you a far more detailed explanation than I did in my last post of need be.
You see after 2008 the Democrats needed to concoct a false narrative to cover their extensive tracks so, they blamed the Banks and Bush. Bernie Sanders is still stuck on stupid and so is Elizabeth Warren.
They STILL think the Banks are to blame.
Democrats even got with Hollywood and made a couple of Movies. " Too Big to Fail " and " Margin Call ". Both nothing but propaganda and BS.
But no amount of propaganda can cover up the truth because they left one HELL of a paper trail.
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Having worked in finance, I can tell you that if you say "toxic debt" in an IB interview, you'd be laughed at. There is no such thing as toxic debt. Debt is debt. There is something called "toxic assets".
You do realize that IB and government are two separate entities, right?
Yes, because reading about it qualifies you over somebody who knows IB inside out.
Yes, it's the left's fault. You're a conservative, so that's the narrative, right?
Having worked in finance, I can tell you that if you say "toxic debt" in an IB interview, you'd be laughed at. There is no such thing as toxic debt. Debt is debt. There is something called "toxic assets".
You do realize that IB and government are two separate entities, right?
Yes, because reading about it qualifies you over somebody who knows IB inside out.
Yes, it's the left's fault. You're a conservative, so that's the narrative, right?
Fenton
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
From 1995 to 2008, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased Trillions of dollars in Sub-prime loans. They then packaged them, bundled them and sold them off as " AAA " MBSs.
MBSs that came from the GSEs were't given a rating lower than " AAA " and that's because US Treasuries at the time had a " AAA " rating. Since Fannie and Freddie were basically Government run and regulated institutions their debt came with a inherent US Government guarantee.
That's one of the primary reason's the 2008 Financial Crisis was so systemic. By co-opting the GSEs into the Sub-prime market Clinton facilitated the distribution of Trillions of dollars of toxic debt throughout the Worlds Capital markets and investment Banks.
By appointing his criminal buddies ( Franklin Raines ) to run the GSEs he helped instill a unprecedented level of corruption and malfeasance at the two most influential financial entities to be involved in the 2008 crisis.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's executives were lying about profits, were qualifying the value of their own securities and were hiding hundreds of Billions of dollars from the SEC. Prior to 2006 they were exempt from SEC quarterly reporting requirements and after 2006, they just lied about what they had on their books.
Sure, private institutions created their own MBSs that were given lower ratings but that wasn't until 2003, and even then the GSEs were the primary purchasers of those privately created MBSs.
One of the largest Originators of Sub-prime loans during the Clinton and Bush administration was CountryWide. CountryWide is the lefts poster child for evil banks. Just one small problem with that assessment
.
Fannie Mae was CountryWides largest customer. CountryWide and Fannie Mae started their partnership in the late 90's when CountryWide created a loan process specifically for Fannie Mae called the " Fast and EZ " loan. By 2004 Fannie Mae was purchasing close to 30 % of all of CountryWides trash Sub-prime loans and pushing them out into the worlds Capital markets as " AAA " rates MBSs.
CountryWide was also giving preferential treatment and sweetheart loans to Democrats lawmakers who served on Congressional Banking Committees. ( Chris Dodd ).
And the GSE's weren't isolated to buying just from CountryWide. In 1999, Fannie Mae vice chair Jamie Goerlick openly appealed to lending institutions to sell Fannie Mae their Sub-prime loans. She was also appointed by Clinton.
When the GSE's were declared insolvent in 2008, they held over 5 Trillion dollars in debt, a substantial portion of it worthless. That debt was shifted over to the US Taxpayer, to the US Treasury.
From 1995 to 2008, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased Trillions of dollars in Sub-prime loans. They then packaged them, bundled them and sold them off as " AAA " MBSs.
MBSs that came from the GSEs were't given a rating lower than " AAA " and that's because US Treasuries at the time had a " AAA " rating. Since Fannie and Freddie were basically Government run and regulated institutions their debt came with a inherent US Government guarantee.
That's one of the primary reason's the 2008 Financial Crisis was so systemic. By co-opting the GSEs into the Sub-prime market Clinton facilitated the distribution of Trillions of dollars of toxic debt throughout the Worlds Capital markets and investment Banks.
By appointing his criminal buddies ( Franklin Raines ) to run the GSEs he helped instill a unprecedented level of corruption and malfeasance at the two most influential financial entities to be involved in the 2008 crisis.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's executives were lying about profits, were qualifying the value of their own securities and were hiding hundreds of Billions of dollars from the SEC. Prior to 2006 they were exempt from SEC quarterly reporting requirements and after 2006, they just lied about what they had on their books.
Sure, private institutions created their own MBSs that were given lower ratings but that wasn't until 2003, and even then the GSEs were the primary purchasers of those privately created MBSs.
One of the largest Originators of Sub-prime loans during the Clinton and Bush administration was CountryWide. CountryWide is the lefts poster child for evil banks. Just one small problem with that assessment
.
Fannie Mae was CountryWides largest customer. CountryWide and Fannie Mae started their partnership in the late 90's when CountryWide created a loan process specifically for Fannie Mae called the " Fast and EZ " loan. By 2004 Fannie Mae was purchasing close to 30 % of all of CountryWides trash Sub-prime loans and pushing them out into the worlds Capital markets as " AAA " rates MBSs.
CountryWide was also giving preferential treatment and sweetheart loans to Democrats lawmakers who served on Congressional Banking Committees. ( Chris Dodd ).
And the GSE's weren't isolated to buying just from CountryWide. In 1999, Fannie Mae vice chair Jamie Goerlick openly appealed to lending institutions to sell Fannie Mae their Sub-prime loans. She was also appointed by Clinton.
When the GSE's were declared insolvent in 2008, they held over 5 Trillion dollars in debt, a substantial portion of it worthless. That debt was shifted over to the US Taxpayer, to the US Treasury.
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
The financial recession hit in 2008. Did you forget that?
Also, please explain to me what toxic debt is again. I'd love for you to explain a term you just made up.
The financial recession hit in 2008. Did you forget that?
Also, please explain to me what toxic debt is again. I'd love for you to explain a term you just made up.
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
MBS packages date from the panic of 1857. Ever heard of railroad mortgage bonds? Also, the 1900s and onward, this was a common practice for the majority of bulge bracket banks. This predates Freddie or Fannie doing this, by over a century.
MBS packages come from many things, not just government-sponsored enterprises. Hence, 1857. Please see above.
Not systematic, but cyclical. As Ray Dalio, one of the biggest hedge fund bosses himself has said, regarding 1929 mirroring 2008:
1) Debt limits reached at Bubble Top, causing the economy and markets to peak (1929 & 2007).
2) Interest rates hit zero amid depression (1931 & 2008).
3) Money printing starts, kicking off a beautiful deleveraging (1933 & 2009).
4) The stock market and "risky assets" rally (1933-1936 & 2009-2014).
5) The economy improves during a cyclical recovery (1933-1936 & 2009-2014).
6) The central bank tightens, resulting in a self-reinforcing downturn (1935 & 2015?).
source
Corruption within the banks, yes. Thanks for proving my point.
Yes, and we call this toxic assets! Spain created Bankia to solve this on their end.
MBS packages date from the panic of 1857. Ever heard of railroad mortgage bonds? Also, the 1900s and onward, this was a common practice for the majority of bulge bracket banks. This predates Freddie or Fannie doing this, by over a century.
MBS packages come from many things, not just government-sponsored enterprises. Hence, 1857. Please see above.
Not systematic, but cyclical. As Ray Dalio, one of the biggest hedge fund bosses himself has said, regarding 1929 mirroring 2008:
1) Debt limits reached at Bubble Top, causing the economy and markets to peak (1929 & 2007).
2) Interest rates hit zero amid depression (1931 & 2008).
3) Money printing starts, kicking off a beautiful deleveraging (1933 & 2009).
4) The stock market and "risky assets" rally (1933-1936 & 2009-2014).
5) The economy improves during a cyclical recovery (1933-1936 & 2009-2014).
6) The central bank tightens, resulting in a self-reinforcing downturn (1935 & 2015?).
source
Corruption within the banks, yes. Thanks for proving my point.
Yes, and we call this toxic assets! Spain created Bankia to solve this on their end.
Last edited:
Fenton
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
I think it's funny that you " work in finance " and still have to rely on manufactured narratives created by the Democrats to explain why we had a Financial crash in 2008.
IB's were buying GSE debt, " AAA " rated securities backed by toxic assets and then selling it on. IBs couldn't compete with the GSEs mainly because the GSE's debt was rubber stamped as " AAA ". Because of that they had a major advantage of any private investment firm.
Consider that the GSEs were exempt from paying local and Federal taxes, had access to a 4 Billion direct line of cheap credit straight from the US Treasury that no Bank could touch, could operate with Capital requirements as low as 2% ( or nothing ) who were exempt from SEC reporting requirements ( all US publicly traded companies have to submit quarterly reports to the SEC ) and who were protected Politically by the Democrat party right up until they were declared insolvent in 2008.
The Democrats have been trying to minimize the influence of the GSEs in the run up to the 2008 Financial crisis for the last 7 years. Democrats claim their participation was minimal, that the GSE's were taken advantage and threatened by larger and more powerful private institutions.
There was no Financial institutions more powerful and influential that Fannie and Freddie and the GSEs were intimidated by no one. They had a unending free flow of cash, answered to no one and their debt was rubber stamped " AAA "
Part of QE was to purchase MBSs. I believe the FED wanted to purchase 1.2 Trillion dollars worth of MBSs from the portfolios of private institutions. Everyone of those MBSs was a GSE security. A security that was sold off as a " AAA " rated security by the now insolvent Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that now are backed by assets in default. Worthless.
The people who want " Bankers Prosecuted " are relying on empty partisan narratives instead of objective research to come to that conclusion. The only two major financial entities to be investigated by the SEC for their participation in the 2008 SUb-Prime crisis were Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and for good reason.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/business/sec-opens-investigation-of-fannie-mae.html?_r=0
https://www.sec.gov/news/testimony/2006/ts061506cc.htm
https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2011/2011-267.htm
The Democrats would LOVE to perp walk a few Bankers to strengthen their narrative that the Banks caused all of this. For some reason all they have are their baseless claims to fall back on.
Well, we've been posting back and forth on this issue for some time now and you have yet to successfully counter one thing I've said. Ill offer the same challenge I offer to everyone else who challenges me on this issue.
If I'm wrong then prove me wrong and no, repeating debunked Democrat talking points isn't going to cut it.
Hey. it's not my fault the Democrats chose to defend the indefensible by sticking up for the two most corrupt Financial entities involved in the Sub-Prime crisis. It's not my fault the Democrats chose to shakedown our Nations lending institutions under the pretense of " fairness " and righteousness ".
I think it's funny that you " work in finance " and still have to rely on manufactured narratives created by the Democrats to explain why we had a Financial crash in 2008.
IB's were buying GSE debt, " AAA " rated securities backed by toxic assets and then selling it on. IBs couldn't compete with the GSEs mainly because the GSE's debt was rubber stamped as " AAA ". Because of that they had a major advantage of any private investment firm.
Consider that the GSEs were exempt from paying local and Federal taxes, had access to a 4 Billion direct line of cheap credit straight from the US Treasury that no Bank could touch, could operate with Capital requirements as low as 2% ( or nothing ) who were exempt from SEC reporting requirements ( all US publicly traded companies have to submit quarterly reports to the SEC ) and who were protected Politically by the Democrat party right up until they were declared insolvent in 2008.
The Democrats have been trying to minimize the influence of the GSEs in the run up to the 2008 Financial crisis for the last 7 years. Democrats claim their participation was minimal, that the GSE's were taken advantage and threatened by larger and more powerful private institutions.
There was no Financial institutions more powerful and influential that Fannie and Freddie and the GSEs were intimidated by no one. They had a unending free flow of cash, answered to no one and their debt was rubber stamped " AAA "
Part of QE was to purchase MBSs. I believe the FED wanted to purchase 1.2 Trillion dollars worth of MBSs from the portfolios of private institutions. Everyone of those MBSs was a GSE security. A security that was sold off as a " AAA " rated security by the now insolvent Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that now are backed by assets in default. Worthless.
The people who want " Bankers Prosecuted " are relying on empty partisan narratives instead of objective research to come to that conclusion. The only two major financial entities to be investigated by the SEC for their participation in the 2008 SUb-Prime crisis were Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and for good reason.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/23/business/sec-opens-investigation-of-fannie-mae.html?_r=0
https://www.sec.gov/news/testimony/2006/ts061506cc.htm
https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2011/2011-267.htm
The Democrats would LOVE to perp walk a few Bankers to strengthen their narrative that the Banks caused all of this. For some reason all they have are their baseless claims to fall back on.
Yes, because reading about it qualifies you over somebody who knows IB inside out.
Well, we've been posting back and forth on this issue for some time now and you have yet to successfully counter one thing I've said. Ill offer the same challenge I offer to everyone else who challenges me on this issue.
If I'm wrong then prove me wrong and no, repeating debunked Democrat talking points isn't going to cut it.
Hey. it's not my fault the Democrats chose to defend the indefensible by sticking up for the two most corrupt Financial entities involved in the Sub-Prime crisis. It's not my fault the Democrats chose to shakedown our Nations lending institutions under the pretense of " fairness " and righteousness ".
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Oh please. You're a complete fool. There is no such thing as toxic debt. Toxic assets, yes. This wasn't created by the democrats, but by mere economics. Ever take an economics class before?
Oh please. You're a complete fool. There is no such thing as toxic debt. Toxic assets, yes. This wasn't created by the democrats, but by mere economics. Ever take an economics class before?
Fenton
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Lol ! Thought we were talking about the Sub-prime crisis. I mean what the hell ?
One more time. The GSE's in 1995 were given " affordable housing " quotas that started at 42 %. So thy had to purchase one Sub-prime loan for every Prime loan and that quota increased to 50 % in 2000.
In 1993 James Johnson ( Democrat ) and then CEO of Fannie Mae committed the GSEs to 1 Trillion dollars in Sub-prime purchases. In 2000 Andrew Cuomo, then HUD Secretary committed the GSE's to 2.4 Trillion in Sub-prime purchases.
In 2008, Fannie and Freddie were declared insolvent holding over 5 Trillion dollars in debt.
No NOT Cyclical, unprecedented is more like it. Unless you can point to the last time a Government forced private lenders to abandon the procedures they've used for decades to vet borrowers and then co-opted it's Government Services Enterprises to purchase those loans, turn them into securities and then distribute them throughout the Worlds Capital Markets.
Fannie and Freddie were NOT Banks, but they WERE the only two major financial entities to be investigated by the SEC for their part in the Sub-prime crisis.
Lol ! Thought we were talking about the Sub-prime crisis. I mean what the hell ?
One more time. The GSE's in 1995 were given " affordable housing " quotas that started at 42 %. So thy had to purchase one Sub-prime loan for every Prime loan and that quota increased to 50 % in 2000.
In 1993 James Johnson ( Democrat ) and then CEO of Fannie Mae committed the GSEs to 1 Trillion dollars in Sub-prime purchases. In 2000 Andrew Cuomo, then HUD Secretary committed the GSE's to 2.4 Trillion in Sub-prime purchases.
In 2008, Fannie and Freddie were declared insolvent holding over 5 Trillion dollars in debt.
No NOT Cyclical, unprecedented is more like it. Unless you can point to the last time a Government forced private lenders to abandon the procedures they've used for decades to vet borrowers and then co-opted it's Government Services Enterprises to purchase those loans, turn them into securities and then distribute them throughout the Worlds Capital Markets.
Fannie and Freddie were NOT Banks, but they WERE the only two major financial entities to be investigated by the SEC for their part in the Sub-prime crisis.
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
This makes no sense.
Glad you're using toxic assets, not toxic debt. haha
You think? Maybe, it might have to do with being a government-sponsored enterprise?
This is a complete mess of a paragraph. Bush was President in 2008, remember?
What are you talking about? You're just making things up now. ahaha
Wrong. Ever heard of an RMBS?
Partisan? That's cute coming from you.
You just said that toxic debt exists, which is laughable! Hilarious stuff.
This makes no sense.
Glad you're using toxic assets, not toxic debt. haha
You think? Maybe, it might have to do with being a government-sponsored enterprise?
This is a complete mess of a paragraph. Bush was President in 2008, remember?
What are you talking about? You're just making things up now. ahaha
Wrong. Ever heard of an RMBS?
Partisan? That's cute coming from you.
You just said that toxic debt exists, which is laughable! Hilarious stuff.
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
I'm telling your uneducated self how MBS packages predate Fannie or Freddie, making your Democrats controlling the financial disaster of 2008 a joke.
Lehman filed for bankruptcy with $639 billion in assets and $619 billion in debt. It wasn't just a government issue, but a bank issue as well. I have no idea why you keep throwing Democrats into this issue.
So is it unprecedented or systemic?
IBs, dimwit, not government entities. Did I ever say Fannie or Freddie were banks?
I'm telling your uneducated self how MBS packages predate Fannie or Freddie, making your Democrats controlling the financial disaster of 2008 a joke.
Lehman filed for bankruptcy with $639 billion in assets and $619 billion in debt. It wasn't just a government issue, but a bank issue as well. I have no idea why you keep throwing Democrats into this issue.
So is it unprecedented or systemic?
IBs, dimwit, not government entities. Did I ever say Fannie or Freddie were banks?
JonK
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
GET OFF YOUR LONG DEBUNKED PETER WALLISON, ED PINTO, AEI TALKING POINTS
From Bush's President's Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008
'The Presidents Working Group's March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.
Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse
2004 Republican Convention:
Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...
Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.
(APPLAUSE)
Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."
DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!
Dubya was warned by the FBI of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud in 2004. He gave them less resources. Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!
Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime
Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis.
What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge?
Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye
In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783.html
Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis
Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | McClatchy DC
GSE Critics Ignore Loan Performance
Money talks. It says the only way to measure the quality of mortgage underwriting is to track loan performance — delinquency and default rates, loss severity — in comparison with the rest of the mortgage market. Otherwise, any analysis of the government-sponsored enterprises' role in housing finance is meaningless.
And yet, critics demanding GSE reform ignore the topic altogether. Search through any book or article promoting the thesis that the GSEs helped cause the mortgage crisis for a passage comparing GSE loan performance with the rest of the market. Almost certainly, you will come up empty-handed.
There is no data anywhere to cast doubt on the vastly superior loan performance of the GSEs. Year after year, decade after decade, before, during and after the housing crash, GSE loan performance has consistently been two-to-six times better than that of any other segment of the market. The numbers are irrefutable, and they show that the entire case against GSE underwriting standards, and their role in the financial crisis, is based on social stereotyping, smoke and mirrors, and little else.
GSE Critics Ignore Loan Performance | Bank Think
Thanks again to the Bush administrations allowing the greedy & unethical brokers to operate at their will.
GET OFF YOUR LONG DEBUNKED PETER WALLISON, ED PINTO, AEI TALKING POINTS
From Bush's President's Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008
'The Presidents Working Group's March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.
Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse
2004 Republican Convention:
Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...
Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.
(APPLAUSE)
Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."
DUBYA FOUGHT ALL 50 STATE AG'S IN 2003, INVOKING A CIVIL WAR ERA RULE SAYING FEDS RULE ON "PREDATORY" LENDERS!
Dubya was warned by the FBI of an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud in 2004. He gave them less resources. Later in 2004 Dubya allowed the leverage rules to go from 12-1 to 33-1 which flooded the market with cheap money!
Predatory Lenders' Partner in Crime
Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis.
What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge?
Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye
In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783.html
Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis
Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | McClatchy DC
GSE Critics Ignore Loan Performance
Money talks. It says the only way to measure the quality of mortgage underwriting is to track loan performance — delinquency and default rates, loss severity — in comparison with the rest of the mortgage market. Otherwise, any analysis of the government-sponsored enterprises' role in housing finance is meaningless.
And yet, critics demanding GSE reform ignore the topic altogether. Search through any book or article promoting the thesis that the GSEs helped cause the mortgage crisis for a passage comparing GSE loan performance with the rest of the market. Almost certainly, you will come up empty-handed.
There is no data anywhere to cast doubt on the vastly superior loan performance of the GSEs. Year after year, decade after decade, before, during and after the housing crash, GSE loan performance has consistently been two-to-six times better than that of any other segment of the market. The numbers are irrefutable, and they show that the entire case against GSE underwriting standards, and their role in the financial crisis, is based on social stereotyping, smoke and mirrors, and little else.
GSE Critics Ignore Loan Performance | Bank Think
Thanks again to the Bush administrations allowing the greedy & unethical brokers to operate at their will.
Last edited:
le bouffon
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
You realize the 2008 recession was a global one? Spain (with their regional cajas), UK (with Northern Rock) were all part of the issue as well. Lehman was the lynch pin, but the banks in Spain and the UK fell like dominoes shortly afterwards. This destroys your idiotic Democratic Fannie and Freddie conspiracy theory, hahaha.
You realize the 2008 recession was a global one? Spain (with their regional cajas), UK (with Northern Rock) were all part of the issue as well. Lehman was the lynch pin, but the banks in Spain and the UK fell like dominoes shortly afterwards. This destroys your idiotic Democratic Fannie and Freddie conspiracy theory, hahaha.
JonK
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis
Don't ask; don't tell: book profits, "earn" bonuses and closet your losses
The first document everyone should read is by S&P, the largest of the rating agencies. The context of the document is that a professional credit rater has told his superiors that he needs to examine the mortgage loan files to evaluate the risk of a complex financial derivative whose risk and market value depend on the credit quality of the nonprime mortgages "underlying" the derivative. A senior manager sends a blistering reply with this forceful punctuation:
Any request for loan level tapes is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE!!! Most investors don't have it and can't provide it. [W]e MUST produce a credit estimate. It is your responsibility to provide those credit estimates and your responsibility to devise some method for doing so.
These two documents are enough to begin to understand:
the FBI accurately described mortgage fraud as "epidemic"
nonprime lenders are overwhelmingly responsible for the epidemic
the fraud was so endemic that it would have been easy to spot if anyone looked
the lenders, the banks that created nonprime derivatives, the rating agencies, and the buyers all operated on a "don't ask; don't tell" policy
willful blindness was essential to originate, sell, pool and resell the loans
willful blindness was the pretext for not posting loss reserves
both forms of blindness made high (fictional) profits certain when the bubble was expanding rapidly and massive (real) losses certain when it collapsed
the worse the nonprime loan quality the higher the fees and interest rates, and the faster the growth in nonprime lending and pooling the greater the immediate fictional profits and (eventual) real losses
the greater the destruction of wealth, the greater the (fictional) profits, bonuses, and stock appreciation
The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis | William K. Black
Examining the big lie: How the facts of the economic crisis stack up
The boom and bust was global. Proponents of the Big Lie ignore the worldwide nature of the housing boom and bust.
A McKinsey Global Institute report noted “from 2000 through 2007, a remarkable run-up in global home prices occurred.” It is highly unlikely that a simultaneous boom and bust everywhere else in the world was caused by one set of factors (ultra-low rates, securitized AAA-rated subprime, derivatives) but had a different set of causes in the United States. Indeed, this might be the biggest obstacle to pushing the false narrative.
...For example, if the CRA was to blame, the housing boom would have been in CRA regions; it would have made places such as Harlem and South Philly and Compton and inner Washington the primary locales of the run up and collapse. Further, the default rates in these areas should have been worse than other regions.
CRA were less likely to default than Subprime Mortgages — Source: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
What occurred was the exact opposite: The suburbs boomed and busted and went into foreclosure in much greater numbers than inner cities. The tiny suburbs and exurbs of South Florida and California and Las Vegas and Arizona were the big boomtowns, not the low-income regions. The redlined areas the CRA address missed much of the boom; places that busted had nothing to do with the CRA.
Nonbank mortgage underwriting exploded from 2001 to 2007, along with the private label securitization market, which eclipsed Fannie and Freddie during the boom.
Examining the big lie: How the facts of the economic crisis stack up | The Big Picture
The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis
Don't ask; don't tell: book profits, "earn" bonuses and closet your losses
The first document everyone should read is by S&P, the largest of the rating agencies. The context of the document is that a professional credit rater has told his superiors that he needs to examine the mortgage loan files to evaluate the risk of a complex financial derivative whose risk and market value depend on the credit quality of the nonprime mortgages "underlying" the derivative. A senior manager sends a blistering reply with this forceful punctuation:
Any request for loan level tapes is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE!!! Most investors don't have it and can't provide it. [W]e MUST produce a credit estimate. It is your responsibility to provide those credit estimates and your responsibility to devise some method for doing so.
These two documents are enough to begin to understand:
the FBI accurately described mortgage fraud as "epidemic"
nonprime lenders are overwhelmingly responsible for the epidemic
the fraud was so endemic that it would have been easy to spot if anyone looked
the lenders, the banks that created nonprime derivatives, the rating agencies, and the buyers all operated on a "don't ask; don't tell" policy
willful blindness was essential to originate, sell, pool and resell the loans
willful blindness was the pretext for not posting loss reserves
both forms of blindness made high (fictional) profits certain when the bubble was expanding rapidly and massive (real) losses certain when it collapsed
the worse the nonprime loan quality the higher the fees and interest rates, and the faster the growth in nonprime lending and pooling the greater the immediate fictional profits and (eventual) real losses
the greater the destruction of wealth, the greater the (fictional) profits, bonuses, and stock appreciation
The Two Documents Everyone Should Read to Better Understand the Crisis | William K. Black
Examining the big lie: How the facts of the economic crisis stack up
The boom and bust was global. Proponents of the Big Lie ignore the worldwide nature of the housing boom and bust.
A McKinsey Global Institute report noted “from 2000 through 2007, a remarkable run-up in global home prices occurred.” It is highly unlikely that a simultaneous boom and bust everywhere else in the world was caused by one set of factors (ultra-low rates, securitized AAA-rated subprime, derivatives) but had a different set of causes in the United States. Indeed, this might be the biggest obstacle to pushing the false narrative.
...For example, if the CRA was to blame, the housing boom would have been in CRA regions; it would have made places such as Harlem and South Philly and Compton and inner Washington the primary locales of the run up and collapse. Further, the default rates in these areas should have been worse than other regions.
CRA were less likely to default than Subprime Mortgages — Source: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
What occurred was the exact opposite: The suburbs boomed and busted and went into foreclosure in much greater numbers than inner cities. The tiny suburbs and exurbs of South Florida and California and Las Vegas and Arizona were the big boomtowns, not the low-income regions. The redlined areas the CRA address missed much of the boom; places that busted had nothing to do with the CRA.
Nonbank mortgage underwriting exploded from 2001 to 2007, along with the private label securitization market, which eclipsed Fannie and Freddie during the boom.
Examining the big lie: How the facts of the economic crisis stack up | The Big Picture
JonK
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
RIGHT WING BS
GSE (F/F) Critics Ignore Loan Performance
Or check out the FHFA study that compares, on an apples-to-apples basis, GSEs loan originations with those for private label securitizations. The study segments loans four ways, by ARMs-versus-fixed-rate, as well as by vintage, by FICO score and by loan-to-value ratio. In almost every one of 1800 different comparisons covering years 2001 through 2008, GSE loan performance was exponentially better.
On average, GSE fixed-rate loans performed four times better, and GSE ARMs performed five times better.
Mortgage analyst Laurie Goodman estimated that private label securitizations issued during 2005-2007 incurred a loss rate of 24%, whereas the GSE loss rate for 2005-2007 vintage loans was closer to 4%.
GSE Critics Ignore Loan Performance | Bank Think
RIGHT WING BS
GSE (F/F) Critics Ignore Loan Performance
Or check out the FHFA study that compares, on an apples-to-apples basis, GSEs loan originations with those for private label securitizations. The study segments loans four ways, by ARMs-versus-fixed-rate, as well as by vintage, by FICO score and by loan-to-value ratio. In almost every one of 1800 different comparisons covering years 2001 through 2008, GSE loan performance was exponentially better.
On average, GSE fixed-rate loans performed four times better, and GSE ARMs performed five times better.
Mortgage analyst Laurie Goodman estimated that private label securitizations issued during 2005-2007 incurred a loss rate of 24%, whereas the GSE loss rate for 2005-2007 vintage loans was closer to 4%.
GSE Critics Ignore Loan Performance | Bank Think
JonK
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse
2004 Republican Convention:
Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...
Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.
(APPLAUSE)
Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."
June 17, 2004
Builders to fight Bush's low-income plan
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.
Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004
DUBYA WAS REGULATOR 2001-2009 OF F/F
Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse
2004 Republican Convention:
Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...
Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.
(APPLAUSE)
Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."
June 17, 2004
Builders to fight Bush's low-income plan
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Home builders, realtors and others are preparing to fight a Bush administration plan that would require Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase financing of homes for low-income people, a home builder group said Thursday.
Home builders fight Bush's low-income housing - Jun. 17, 2004
DUBYA WAS REGULATOR 2001-2009 OF F/F
JonK
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Re: Iceland does what the US won’t: 26 top bankers sent to prison for finanicial cris
Banks Resisting Fannie, Freddie Demands to Buy Back Mortgages
November 29, 2010
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are facing growing resistance as they attempt to push failed home loans off their books and onto the balance sheets of banks including Bank of America Corp. and JPMorgan Chase & Co.
The two government-owned mortgage companies are enforcing contracts that require lenders to buy back loans that didn’t meet underwriting standards. At the end of September, the companies reported, banks hadn’t responded to $13 billion in buyback requests.
Banks Resisting Fannie, Freddie Demands to Buy Back Mortgages - Bloomberg Business
Bank of America Will Pay Almost $3B to Settle GSE Buybacks
National Mortgage News - Bank of America Will Pay Almost $3B to Settle GSE Buybacks
Bank of America Announces Agreement on Legacy Countrywide Mortgage Repurchase and Servicing Claims
The agreement includes a cash payment of $8.5 billion to the covered trusts to be made after final court approval of the settlement. Bank of America also intends to record an additional $5.5 billion provision to its representations and warranties liability for both Government-Sponsored Enterprises (GSE) and non-GSE exposures in the second quarter of 2011.
Bank of America | Investor Relations | Financial Releases
Bank of America to Pay $16.65 Billion in Historic Justice Department Settlement for Financial Fraud Leading up to and During the Financial Crisis
Bank of America to Pay $16.65 Billion in Historic Justice Department Settlement for Financial Fraud Leading up to and During the Financial Crisis | OPA | Department of Justice
LMAOROG
Banks Resisting Fannie, Freddie Demands to Buy Back Mortgages
November 29, 2010
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are facing growing resistance as they attempt to push failed home loans off their books and onto the balance sheets of banks including Bank of America Corp. and JPMorgan Chase & Co.
The two government-owned mortgage companies are enforcing contracts that require lenders to buy back loans that didn’t meet underwriting standards. At the end of September, the companies reported, banks hadn’t responded to $13 billion in buyback requests.
Banks Resisting Fannie, Freddie Demands to Buy Back Mortgages - Bloomberg Business
Bank of America Will Pay Almost $3B to Settle GSE Buybacks
National Mortgage News - Bank of America Will Pay Almost $3B to Settle GSE Buybacks
Bank of America Announces Agreement on Legacy Countrywide Mortgage Repurchase and Servicing Claims
The agreement includes a cash payment of $8.5 billion to the covered trusts to be made after final court approval of the settlement. Bank of America also intends to record an additional $5.5 billion provision to its representations and warranties liability for both Government-Sponsored Enterprises (GSE) and non-GSE exposures in the second quarter of 2011.
Bank of America | Investor Relations | Financial Releases
Bank of America to Pay $16.65 Billion in Historic Justice Department Settlement for Financial Fraud Leading up to and During the Financial Crisis
Bank of America to Pay $16.65 Billion in Historic Justice Department Settlement for Financial Fraud Leading up to and During the Financial Crisis | OPA | Department of Justice
LMAOROG