Putin at UN

Putin began by describing the original purpose of the UN, which he said had been violated by "those that found themselves at the top of the pyramid" after the Cold War.

Putin then laid out his argument against regime change in Syria, saying foreign meddling in overthrowing regimes had only created more instability in the Middle East.

To this effect, Putin said: "Far from learning from others' mistakes, we keep on repeating them. It suffices to look at Middle East and North Africa ... Rather than bringing about reform, foreign interference has resulted in ... violence, poverty, and social disaster.

Putin said the power vacuum in the Middle East had "started to be filled by militants and terrorists." He continued: "We think it is an enormous mistake to not cooperate with the Syrian government and its armed forces. No one but Assad's armed forces and the Kurdish militias are truly fighting ISIS and other terrorists in Syria
Russian President Putin's UN speech - Business Insider

*ouch* that's gonna leave a mark. He's 100% correct about North Africa ( Libya fiasco), and the Mid East ( Iraq fiasco)..
He gets to call out Libya as he refused to join the UN coalition.. ( Qaddafi must go)

He's using that example as a reason why not to "Assad must go" mantra made popular by Obama/Rice/Powers/Hillary/Kerry

I watched him last night on 60 Minutes and found little wrong with his words comparing them to out politicians. Some things he said make all the sense in the world when it comers to regime changes. Look at our history of covert operations trying to over throw leaders. They all blew up in our faces. 25,000,000 soviets homeless after the downfall of the USSR. No wonder he wants to restore it.

It is always going to be difficult to ascertain Putin's real intentions, but his comments are not that far off the mark. There is always a reasonable point to be made about not just the hypocrisy of US foreign policy to date, but also the realities of the Middle East, and parts of Africa, these days post all these changes. Quite simply, most of these locations are not adapt to western governmental ideologies and what really flourishes are various groups that will become tomorrow's problems. You could argue well that from Libya to Egypt, and Iraq to Syria are no better off today. And you could argue even better that ISIS is purely a reality from the weakness of both Iraq and Syria. Go back into history and you will find we have on and off supported (or in some regard helped) some of these lunatics, including Saddam himself. It is easy for even Putin to burn us on our decision making going back decades given the results we clearly see today.

rhinefire said:

I watched him last night on 60 Minutes and found little wrong with his words comparing them to out politicians. Some things he said make all the sense in the world when it comers to regime changes. Look at our history of covert operations trying to over throw leaders. They all blew up in our faces. 25,000,000 soviets homeless after the downfall of the USSR. No wonder he wants to restore it.

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yes. I saw part of it. He neglects to mention the Budapest Memorandum where Russia agrees to Ukraine territorial integrity,
in return for no nukes.. but he makes a persuasive case.

Explainer: The Budapest Memorandum And Its Relevance To Crimea

Under the memorandum, Ukraine promised to remove all Soviet-era nuclear weapons from its territory, send them to disarmament facilities in Russia, and sign the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty. Ukraine kept these promises.

In return, Russia and the Western signatory countries essentially consecrated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine as an independent state. They did so by applying the principles of territorial integrity and nonintervention in 1975 Helsinki Final Act -- a Cold War-era treaty signed by 35 states including the Soviet Union -- to an independent post-Soviet Ukraine.

OrphanSlug said:

It is always going to be difficult to ascertain Putin's real intentions, but his comments are not that far off the mark. There is always a reasonable point to be made about not just the hypocrisy of US foreign policy to date, but also the realities of the Middle East, and parts of Africa, these days post all these changes. Quite simply, most of these locations are not adapt to western governmental ideologies and what really flourishes are various groups that will become tomorrow's problems. You could argue well that from Libya to Egypt, and Iraq to Syria are no better off today. And you could argue even better that ISIS is purely a reality from the weakness of both Iraq and Syria. Go back into history and you will find we have on and off supported (or in some regard helped) some of these lunatics, including Saddam himself. It is easy for even Putin to burn us on our decision making going back decades given the results we clearly see today.

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Greetings, OrphanSlug. :2wave:

:agree: I read the article on Yahoo late this morning, and was very interested in reading the "comments" section under the story to see what people thought about the speech Putin made this morning to the U.N. Wow! People jumped right on this one! There were several hundred of them already at that time, and 99 percent overwhelmingly felt that Putin was right! Most commenters stated in their remarks that while they were reluctant to agree with Putin on much of anything, they felt he was correct about what was going on in the ME, and while he didn't specifically mention the US, he did state that the Western powers should not be interfering in the ME, and most interestingly, the fact that he finally asked "Do you realize what you have done?"

Has he annexed Manhattan yet?

annata said:

To this effect, Putin said: "Far from learning from others' mistakes, we keep on repeating them. It suffices to look at Middle East and North Africa ... Rather than bringing about reform, foreign interference has resulted in ... violence, poverty, and social disaster.

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Which I suppose justifies his foreign interference?

fmw said:

Which I suppose justifies his foreign interference?

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In the Ukraine, i'd have to say "no". He annexes Crimea and saws off Donbass from Kyiv's sovereignty.. That was despicable..

However on Syria it is historically a Russian client state, and they have Tartus leased. Plus the fact they have a legitimate interest in Assad
who afterall is the democratically elected president . More to the point if he can keep it from melting further,
or perhaps really help go after ISIL -it's in his and everyone's best interest he do so.

It's not like we have any good options there :roll:

Moon said:

Has he annexed Manhattan yet?

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Would anyone notice?

OrphanSlug said:

Would anyone notice?

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With the current leadership in NY? Probably not.

OrphanSlug said:

Would anyone notice?

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If they noticed would they care?

NonoBadDog said:

If they noticed would they care?

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Nah. They'd notice a change in vodka labels. More drug dealers would be shot for refusing to give the Russian mafia their cut, maybe.

There's little doubt Putin demonstrates a greater understanding of foreign affairs and the dynamics of the ME than Obama does, and there's little doubt he will exploit that weakness of Obama's at every opportunity. Obama screwed the pooch in leaving Iraq and destabilizing North Africa with all of his regime change BS. He's doing it again in Syria. Obama had a chance to make a real difference in Syria three or four years ago, but he's a feckless and reactive soul unwilling to accept advice from anyone who does not necessarily share his political ideology. It's an extremely foolish approach. He's not messing around with a republican congress here - it's a much larger playing field with higher stakes than tomorrow's political headlines.

no, Putin wants to maintain Assad because Putin has a steady weapons customer in Syria, and a large naval base in Syria. but aside from that, he wants 'the west' to not involve themselves in the middle east, so that 'Russia' has a free hand to involve themselves in the middle east. he's not the 'good guy' he's the 'jealous guy' who wants the influence 'the west' has.

i don't blame him for it, he's pursuing a policy to strengthen his nation, something that is his duty as his nation's leader.

annata said:

*ouch* that's gonna leave a mark. He's 100% correct about North Africa ( Libya fiasco), and the Mid East ( Iraq fiasco)..
He gets to call out Libya as he refused to join the UN coalition.. ( Qaddafi must go)

He's using that example as a reason why not to "Assad must go" mantra made popular by Obama/Rice/Powers/Hillary/Kerry

Click to expand...

It's distressing when attentive American citizens have to rely on foreign leaders to hear the truth about America's hypocritical & fatally flawed Mid East Policy while domestic politicians recite tiresome & meaningless pseudo-patriotic platitudes

When Ahmadinejad spoke at the UN ( and in other settings) very few Americans had access to honest translations of what he had to say because his emphasis on equitable treatment & description of America's egregious double standard dominating US Mid East Policy was so honest, accurate & sensible.

Assad is another grossly demonized leader from whom Americans hear so little because he is also rational, intelligent & Spot On. He is not the murderous despot routinely slaughtering his own people as reported by America's talking heads

He is a trained MD & was a practicing Opthamologist in London when he was summoned to Syria to take over leadership of the country after the deaths of his father & brother. Additionally, he is tremendously popular among the Syrian people to the point that he frequently drives himself to work every day from his modest flat/apartment.

I was surprised to hear Putin's seemingly unaltered interview on "60 Minutes" the other night. Americans need to hear the truth about their failed policies & they're not hearing it from US politicians or US News media. The chaos in Syria today is not a "Civil War, it is yet another attempted US - Israeli Regional Regime change.

The only major forces seriously committed to fighting ISIS are Syria's, Iran's, Hezbollah & now, Russia's. The US, Israel, Turkey & Saudi Arabia are supporting the Syrian Rebels, ISIS, al Nusra etc. in a complex & fatally flawed attempt to balkanize the Region into smaller, more easily dominated, malleable "Statelets"

The tiresome myth about Iran being a "major supporter of terrorism" crumbles in the face of its requesting the US to help them fight the Regions' most malevolent Terrorists: ISIS:

“US rejects Iran's offer to cooperate against Islamic State”
US rejects Iran's offer to cooperate against Islamic State — RT News



Putin's interview & speech were both refreshing examples of what Americans need to hear as the first step in solving America's problems & not repeating its failures is admitting that they exist.



Thanks

B'smith said:

It's distressing when attentive American citizens have to rely on foreign leaders to hear the truth about America's hypocritical & fatally flawed Mid East Policy while domestic politicians recite tiresome & meaningless pseudo-patriotic platitudes

When Ahmadinejad spoke at the UN ( and in other settings) very few Americans had access to honest translations of what he had to say because his emphasis on equitable treatment & description of America's egregious double standard dominating US Mid East Policy was so honest, accurate & sensible.

Assad is another grossly demonized leader from whom Americans hear so little because he is also rational, intelligent & Spot On. He is not the murderous despot routinely slaughtering his own people as reported by America's talking heads

He is a trained MD & was a practicing Opthamologist in London when he was summoned to Syria to take over leadership of the country after the deaths of his father & brother. Additionally, he is tremendously popular among the Syrian people to the point that he frequently drives himself to work every day from his modest flat/apartment.

I was surprised to hear Putin's seemingly unaltered interview on "60 Minutes" the other night. Americans need to hear the truth about their failed policies & they're not hearing it from US politicians or US News media. The chaos in Syria today is not a "Civil War, it is yet another attempted US - Israeli Regional Regime change.

The only major forces seriously committed to fighting ISIS are Syria's, Iran's, Hezbollah & possibly, Russia's. The US, Israel, Turkey & Saudi Arabia are supporting the Syrian Rebels, ISIS, al Nusra etc.

The tiresome myth about Iran being a "major supporter of terrorism" crumbles in the face of requesting the US to help them fight the Regions' most malevolent Terrorists: ISIS:

“US rejects Iran's offer to cooperate against Islamic State”
US rejects Iran's offer to cooperate against Islamic State — RT News

Putin's interview & speech were both refreshing examples of what Americans need to hear as the first step in solving America's problems & not repeating its failures is admitting that they exist.



Thanks

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Quoting RT as to Iranain desires to "work" with the US is questionable. Iran doesn't want the US back in, we notify Iran of airstrikes now, that is about the level of cooperation desired by both parties.
Iran is much more happy to work with Russia ( Quds force leader Qasem Soleimani ) recently went to Moscow to coordinate with Russia.
Russian and Iranian goals are expansionism ,and colonizing Iraq - I agree we let it happen by taking out saddam,and disbanding of the Iraqi army,
but their motives are far from pure..

Saudi Arabia and Qatar play the same proxie game that Iran does in Yemen - indeed Iran was content to undermine Baghdad,
while sending fighters in to Syria ..

Putin is speaking to his advantage -of course he doesn't want "Syrian spillover" either, but everybody has an agenda in Syria.
The immediate agendas are why its so difficult to get a consensus, or a coalition.

Maybe that will change, but I doubt it -Assad can't hold any ground outside his immediate controls.

al-Nusra and the FSA etc. have no desire to work with Assad. It's going to go on -it's a war of attrition, and I can't see that changing

B'smith said:

It's distressing when attentive American citizens have to rely on foreign leaders to hear the truth about America's hypocritical & fatally flawed Mid East Policy while domestic politicians recite tiresome & meaningless pseudo-patriotic platitudes

When Ahmadinejad spoke at the UN ( and in other settings) very few Americans had access to honest translations of what he had to say because his emphasis on equitable treatment & description of America's egregious double standard dominating US Mid East Policy was so honest, accurate & sensible.

Assad is another grossly demonized leader from whom Americans hear so little because he is also rational, intelligent & Spot On. He is not the murderous despot routinely slaughtering his own people as reported by America's talking heads

He is a trained MD & was a practicing Opthamologist in London when he was summoned to Syria to take over leadership of the country after the deaths of his father & brother. Additionally, he is tremendously popular among the Syrian people to the point that he frequently drives himself to work every day from his modest flat/apartment.

I was surprised to hear Putin's seemingly unaltered interview on "60 Minutes" the other night. Americans need to hear the truth about their failed policies & they're not hearing it from US politicians or US News media. The chaos in Syria today is not a "Civil War, it is yet another attempted US - Israeli Regional Regime change.

The only major forces seriously committed to fighting ISIS are Syria's, Iran's, Hezbollah & now, Russia's. The US, Israel, Turkey & Saudi Arabia are supporting the Syrian Rebels, ISIS, al Nusra etc. in a complex & fatally flawed attempt to balkanize the Region into smaller, more easily dominated, malleable "Statelets"

The tiresome myth about Iran being a "major supporter of terrorism" crumbles in the face of its requesting the US to help them fight the Regions' most malevolent Terrorists: ISIS:

“US rejects Iran's offer to cooperate against Islamic State”
US rejects Iran's offer to cooperate against Islamic State — RT News



Putin's interview & speech were both refreshing examples of what Americans need to hear as the first step in solving America's problems & not repeating its failures is admitting that they exist.



Thanks

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Go talk to the relatives of the sailors of the Kursk and find out how refreshing it is to have Putin as their grand caring leader.

Moon said:

Has he annexed Manhattan yet?

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He annexes only contiguous lands, the Russian sphere of influence.

In contrast, we wage war all over the globe. It is, after all, a GLOBAL War on Terror.

annata said:

Quoting RT as to Iranain desires to "work" with the US is questionable. Iran doesn't want the US back in, we notify Iran of airstrikes now, that is about the level of cooperation desired by both parties.
Iran is much more happy to work with Russia ( Quds force leader Qasem Soleimani ) recently went to Moscow to coordinate with Russia.
Russian and Iranian goals are expansionism ,and colonizing Iraq - I agree we let it happen by taking out saddam,and disbanding of the Iraqi army,
but their motives are far from pure..

EDITED FOR SPACE

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It's been my experience that the Iranian people have a fondness for America & the American people. At least they were very hospitable to me & expressed an admiration for the American people in general.

The reality of Iranian attempts to improve US - Iranian relations are non existent in US Major Media. For example, Israeli media reports:

“Iran offers help in fighting Gulf of Mexico oil leak”

Iran offers help in fighting Gulf of Mexico oil leak - Israel News, Ynetnews
EXCERPT “Iranian company included in recent round of sanctions against Tehran offers to send experts to help clean up largest environmental disaster in US history, saying that US, Britain can send request for aid from Iran.
"Despite the sanctions, the Revolutionary Guards are prepared for the humanitarian mission to send forces to the Gulf of Mexico," noted Qasemi. "Iranian experience in dealing with oil spills in the Persian Gulf countries, like Kuwait, has proven its abilities." CONTINUED


A close Military friend of mine in the Persian Gulf is in charge of monitoring US - Iranian Naval co-operative activities & communications explained the friendly, informal meetings between US & Iranian naval personnel that take place when they share family photos & exchange small gifts. His favorite Iranian snack is their lemon & sugar coated pistachios.

Equally under-reported in US Media are the co-operative Search & Rescue Operations & fighting pirate activity in the area:

“Over the Horizon: Iranian Rescue Validates U.S. Navy's Cooperative Strategy”
Over the Horizon: Iranian Rescue Validates U.S. Navy's Cooperative Strategy

EXCERPT “Last week, in the Gulf of Oman, the Arleigh Burke-class missile destroyer USS Kidd seized an Iranian fishing dhow that had been hijacked and used as a mother ship by Somali pirates. In the course of the seizure, 13 Iranian hostages were freed, and 15 Somali pirates were taken into U.S. custody. The Iranian crew has now returned home after more than a month in captivity.

In and of itself, the rescue was not extraordinary....
The Iranians’ claim that Iran frees pirate hostages all the time without the same degree of fanfare represents an implicit acknowledgement of the success of the hostage rescue in this regard. "CONTINUED


Earlier Iranian leaders have repeatedly reached out to the US for improved relations only to be rebuffed by an AIPAC dominated US Foreign Policy.

Naturally Iran doesn't want more extensive US Regional involvement operating under its historic, existing Ziono-centric, Israeli-US Regional Expansion & Domination machinations.

Please look into the decades old, & clearly articulated, Expansionist "Greater Israel" / Oded Yinon Plan of which the Iraq War was an early step, the undergoing Regime Change in Syria is an additional step & Iran is a later step.: (1)

“From the "Yinon Plan" to the "Ya’alon Strategy"
From the "Yinon Plan" to the "Ya'alon Strategy", by Alfredo Jalife-Rahme
EXCERPT “the 1982 Oded Yinon Plan and Moshe Ya’alon’s present-day strategy. While endorsing the vision of both plans, Israel continues to pursue its own balkanization agenda. Historically, Israel has always sought to dismember the countries surrounding her.
During the five-day trip he made to the United States, Israeli defense minister Moshe Ya’alon told Steve Inskeep, one of the hosts of Morning Edition on National Public Radio that "MidEast borders ‘absolutely’ will change". CONTINUED

Iran's support of Assad is defensive in nature and to thwart Oded Yinon etc because they're included in the hit list

America would be far better served by joining the Europeans in pursuing far more beneficial trade relations with Iran than remaining bogged down in unnecessary, costly & bloody, Ziono-centric Regional Hegemony failures.

Thanks



(1) “Zionist Plan for the Middle East” Paperback – Jun 1982
by Oded Yinon (Author), Israel Shahak (Translator)
Zionist Plan for the Middle East: Oded Yinon, Israel Shahak: 9780937694565: Books - Amazon.ca

Henry David said:

He annexes only contiguous lands, the Russian sphere of influence.

In contrast, we wage war all over the globe. It is, after all, a GLOBAL War on Terror.

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Thanks for such a brief & accurate observation.

Critics of Putin seem to forget that Lincoln claimed to be doing the same thing....."Preserving the Union" & praise him for doing so.

Meanwhile, the US doesn't recognize the rights of other countries to have something like their own Monroe Doctrine while it flits around the globe Regime Changing, unconditionally supporting "Chosen" State Terrorism & bombing people for democracy because they "hate us for our freedoms"



Thanks

Crosscheck said:

Go talk to the relatives of the sailors of the Kursk and find out how refreshing it is to have Putin as their grand caring leader.

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I didn't know he was responsible for sinking it.


If you're going to criticize government leaders for what they DIDN'T do, it seems like your ire would be more rationally directed at condemning US supported, mass murdering, War Criminals for what they DID do.


Your choice...

I have noticed the same when watching speeches from other world leaders, even the nut in the dinner jacket showed a very good understanding of world politics and I was surprised that he along with Putin often will convince with the truth, however, when anyone attempts to invade another country, would their acts not go against their words?

B'smith said:

I didn't know he was responsible for sinking it.


If you're going to criticize government leaders for what they DIDN'T do, it seems like your ire would be more rationally directed at condemning US supported, mass murdering, War Criminals for what they DID do.


Your choice...

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He may not have been directly responsible for sinking it. But if Russia would have accepted the help offered by the navies of the USA, Britain, and Norway there may have been 23 sailors alive today.
Russia did not have some of the more modern submarine rescue equipment the three countries offered to help with. The ships were there to help but Russia held them back for 4 days while the remaining sailors died.
Putnin meanwhile went on a 5 days vacation along a coastal town.

It is one thing to kill your enemy but to not try and help your own dedicated men is despicable.

Yes you are right that the US has supported dictators in the past but I believe this thread was about Putin. My bad.

If I were Assad I'd worry about the day that Russia annexes part of the country.


For the good of the locals of course.

avatar said:

If I were Assad I'd worry about the day that Russia annexes part of the country.


For the good of the locals of course.

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Syria and Russia have had constructive and mutually beneficial dealings for more than 50 years. Why would Putin want to take over the country? Why would Assad fear Russia?