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Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123***459]

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Frank Apisa said:
The picture you claimed was a baby of 20 weeks up above was actually of a fetus.
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What sort of fetus? A dog fetus? A bird? NO, its a human. It is a living human, capable of living outside the human body. That you would kill it because it inconveniences you suggests that you would have no problem with someone doing the same to you, no? You don't advocate killing an infant once it leaves the mothers body. Why? Do you think it suddenly becomes human the moment it exits the womans body? Explain the physical differences between a fetus at 8 months 29 days and 55 minutes and a baby at 9 months. Then explain why killing one is ok and killing another is among the most horrible of all crimes.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Frank Apisa said:
I get that, Jack, honestly I do.

And most women are happy and proud to be pregnant.

I have no problem with that...and I offer congratulations when it happens.

I've seen that shirt...and always love seeing it.

BUT...the fact is that the fetus...is a fetus. Prior, it is a zygote, embryo...even a fertilized egg!

I am happy for the women who want the child...AND I want a woman who does not want to carry the pregnancy to term...to have the right to terminate.

Unfortunately, the anti-abortion people are intent on stopping all abortions.

That causes those of us who want to protect a woman's right to control her own body by terminating a pregnancy should she choose...to act in the opposite direction in extreme.
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I can understand that and they make no bones about the fact that, if left to their own devices, they would ban all abortions. That said, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening. Roe V. Wade has stood since 1973. Do you honestly believe that there is any way that would EVER be overturned? I don't. I don't know the exact statistics but I think it is somewhere around 65% of Americans support the right to choose at least in some context.

I guess what you "fear" I see as just pandering to a portion of one party's political base. A lot of bluster but when it comes to real action I just can't see it happening.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Jack Fabulous said:
I can understand that and they make no bones about the fact that, if left to their own devices, they would ban all abortions. That said, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening. Roe V. Wade has stood since 1973. Do you honestly believe that there is any way that would EVER be overturned? I don't. I don't know the exact statistics but I think it is somewhere around 65% of Americans support the right to choose at least in some context.

I guess what you "fear" I see as just pandering to a portion of one party's political base. A lot of bluster but when it comes to real action I just can't see it happening.
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Once again, I agree with you., Jack.

But read the absurd hypothetical posed by Fletch just above your post.

I would love to see a line drawn. But wherever it is drawn...that kind of person will continue to chop at it...with the intention of eroding it.

Best thing to do is to refuse to give an inch to people unwilling to give one themselves.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

JayDubya said:
That's as reasonable as saying that the decision about whether or not to allow my neighbor to continue living or not should be mine.

Which is to say not at ****ing all reasonable. Me hiring someone to kill someone else is never acceptable; it should not be acceptable for anyone else either.
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???? curious how does a neighbor live inside a women? oh wait thats because your analogy complete fails and has ZERO honest and logical basis

also what does hiring a someone to murder another person have to do with abortion? oh, ANOTHER completely irrational analogy. LMAO

try again
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Its really really really simply.

THis things would have much more of a chcnace at passing if they were based on medical science, health and saftey . . .

but when its just a clear as glass attempt to restrict abortion simply because people disagree with it it will continue to fail.

As most people know I fully support a 20 week limit BUT its MUST come with circumstantial allowances. I actually wouldnt allow rape and incest after this mark because its long enough to decide (unless some how it could be proven you didnt know) but I would complete allow it for health of the woman and health of the fetus . . . banning either one of those is insanity and thats what this bill would have did. Find out your baby is going to have major problems at 21 weeks or be born only to suffer and die with in minutes or hours and this bill wouldnt allow an abortion . . no thanks, thats nuts
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

digsbe said:
Nice fluffy words, but what about if she's carrying a viable fetus and one that may survive outside the womb? The 20 week ban doesn't stop a woman from aborting her children's pregnancies, it sets a limit as to how late they may be since some children born later in pregnancy have a shot at life outside the womb. At that point is it so much about terminating pregnancy or is it about killing the unborn?

Parroting that it's "her choice" isn't much of a debate tactic, one could say the same thing about slave ownership or any other issue that was a moral atrocity of the day. That's just rationalizing in order to permit the greatest if evils.
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This was nothing more than a message sent by the Democrats to the Republicans regarding future votes on funding to Planned Parenthood. It gives them political cover to oppose any potential defunding of PP, where if they had voted in favor of this bill (or cloture) then they would have lost some of that political cover.

Just a political move regarding Planned Parenthood and solidifying the Democratic base in the shadow of the Presidential election rather than a true statement about limitations being put on abortion restricting it to the first 20 weeks. Most blacks are religious, and oppose abortion on principle. However, they also tend to support Planned Parenthood because of the free services they provide to the poor neighborhoods other than abortion. So, the Senate Democrats made a choice, to oppose this bill to allow for a stronger fight against defunding Planned Parenthood.

JMHO
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

washunut said:
Do to advances in medicine, when an embryo becomes viable has changed.
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Actually it has not. The means to keep it alive with technology has advanced and that has nothing to do with viability, but it does raise a question: who is to pay for the life support and intensive care such a premature born requires?
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

The democrats playing party politics instead of listening to the American people is nothing new. America opposed Obamacare but the shoved it down our throats anyway, so why should this issue be any different.

Here's how America stands:

abortion_poll.webp
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123]

Soho gator said:
Excelent. These bans are the first steps on a slippery slope to ending personal liberty.
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The right to extinguish a human life for convenience should never be infringed upon.

<sarcasm off>
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Fletch said:
Like it or not, what is being discussed is a human life
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and why is that particular life significant? What makes it so?

and at 20 weeks, a viable human life.
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Actually it is not, but don't let facts bother you.

that thing growing inside a woman is a human life. And as such, it too has rights.
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Says who?
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Jack Fabulous said:
Calling it a fetus is correct, I wouldn't argue that...

View attachment 67190488

... although I've never seen a pregnant woman wearing a t-shirt that said "fetus on board".
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Although I only have heard a woman say "I am going to have a baby" (future tense)
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Frank Apisa said:
Good.

The decision to abort or not to abort should be made by the pregnant woman...with, if she chooses, the advise of her doctor.
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How about not have sex till you are ready to deal with a potential child?

Oh, **** what am I saying, that would be like asking for people to take responsibility for their actions and act with some self restraint, where's the fun in that? It's just a child's life being snuffed out for convenience.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Luftwaffe said:
Not quite.

Whats really too bad is that he falsely identifies himself as libertarian...

Well, not everyone knows how to define themselves :lol:

I agree with the OP. Abortion will never go away, many times, rights simply never do vanish.
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Unless you're yet to be born, then you have no rights. You are at the whim of an emotionally compromised person being told it's okay to kill you.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

iguanaman said:
We often don't know the biological father.
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That's a stinging commentary on the state of the social fabric of the country that you think being a slut is justification for murder.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Renae said:
How about not have sex till you are ready to deal with a potential child?

Oh, **** what am I saying, that would be like asking for people to take responsibility for their actions and act with some self restraint, where's the fun in that? It's just a child's life being snuffed out for convenience.
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Great solution.

Just not have sex.

Just say "no."

Terrible notion...naive.

If a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy occurring in her own body...she should be allowed to do so. It is her decision...and hers alone.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Renae said:
Unless you're yet to be born, then you have no rights. You are at the whim of an emotionally compromised person being told it's okay to kill you.
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It is the termination of a pregnancy, Renae.

And it is the person in whose body the pregnancy is occurring who ought have the right to decide it.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Frank Apisa said:
And it is the person in whose body the pregnancy is occurring who ought have the right to decide it.
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Why does the person who's pregnant get to decide life or death of another human being's body --- ie., the fetus?
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Renae said:
That's a stinging commentary on the state of the social fabric of the country that you think being a slut is justification for murder.
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No murder happening.

And if there is a stinging commentary on the state of social fabric being made here...your comments using the word "slut" the way you did is that commentary.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Frank Apisa said:
It is the termination of a pregnancy, Renae.

And it is the person in whose body the pregnancy is occurring who ought have the right to decide it.
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Should she be able to do so the moment she goes into labor?
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Ockham said:
Why does the person who's pregnant get to decide life or death of another human being's body --- ie., the fetus?
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The fetus is a fetus...not another human being.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Grim17 said:
Should she be able to do so the moment she goes into labor?
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She should be able to exercise that right so long as the pregnancy is occurring in her own body.
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Frank Apisa said:
The fetus is a fetus...not another human being.
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Incorrect. The fetus is a human life. What happens when it's born - some magical "human" fairy sprinkles sparkley dust on it and it becomes human? A fetus is a body inside of another body, a human life inside of another body. If it's not another human life - what is it?
 
Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Ockham said:
Incorrect. The fetus is a human life.
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The fetus...is a fetus. Even you call it a fetus.


What happens when it's born - some magical "human" fairy sprinkles sparkley dust on it and it becomes human?
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An egg is not a chicken. Nothing magical happens to make it become a chicken. But until it is, it is an egg...then an embryo...then a zygote...

...and only then a chicken.

A fetus is a fetus. When it is born...it becomes a human being.



A fetus is a body inside of another body, a human life inside of another body. If it's not another human life - what is it?
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Oh, I thought I had answered that question.

My bad.

If it is not another human life...what is it?

A fetus, Ockham. A fetus.
 
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