Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123***459]

JayDubya · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

David_N said:
Why is it off to a rocky start?
In the past, women were treated like cattle, this is undeniable, that was the point, we cant attempt to control women like was done in the past.

When I say, "EVERY HUMAN HAS RIGHTS, TREAT EVERYONE EQUAL" and you say, "My, how archaic and medieval!" it just proves you don't know what the standard was in medieval times.

In medieval times, the state had all the power and the subjects had no rights the state didn't grant - it's funny how this aligns exactly with the supreme central authority "progressives" want us to regress to.

Classical liberalism was a rejection of that sort of ideology; "progressive" liberalism is all about backsliding into the same tyranny.

Uh, the fetus is reliant on the women inside of her body, the argument holds.

You said "her body."

Being reliant on your mother is normal for mammalian offspring; it doesn't mean they don't have their own body.

Again, your "common sense" was just error.

Taxation is allowed, and every single country conducts taxation, if you point to that as stealing property, go for it.

I didn't say I opposed all taxation. Taxation for the sake of nothing more than giving your property to someone else is the government forcing charity at gunpoint, however, and is blatantly immoral.

JayDubya · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

David_N said:
I just realized youŕe assuming abortion will lead to a authoritarian state. An authoritarian state is what the religious right calls for.

Punishing and preventing homicide is not authoritarian.

The night watchman is part of even the most minimal state possible. If you don't have laws against killing, you don't have a state, you have anarchy.

Legal abortion is predicated on the notion that only the state gives rights and the state is right to restrict personhood from those who are deemed by the leadership to be undesirable or exploitable.

Henrin · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

David_N said:
Property stolen? I assume you refer to taxation, which every single country on earth conducts, apart from somalia and some other dumps that canẗ fund anything the public needs.. If you want to classify abortion as murder, fine, go for it, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But I, and many others, will not have women being controlled, forced to have children, and then be told they will not get any support. Taxation will never go away, this is a society in which we all work together, indirectly and directly. Highways, roads, the fire department, public schools.. We all have benefited at some point from the taxes others paid, this is the beauty of our society. If I really look at it, it astounds me.

There is no doubt that stealing peoples property can bring great benefits. There is great benefits that the robber or those he is helping can have from his deeds, just as there is great benefits people can have from the government stealing peoples property. Your argument is really only saying that because theft can have benefits that it should be supported and practiced by the government. I'm sorry if I don't consider that a very logically or morally sound argument.

David_N · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

JayDubya said:
When I say, "EVERY HUMAN HAS RIGHTS, TREAT EVERYONE EQUAL" and you say, "My, how archaic and medieval!" it just proves you don't know what the standard was in medieval times.

Oh, I know what the standard was, youre trying to equate a fetus to a pregnant woman, which is barbaric in nature, considering the implications of such a ludicrious proposal.

In medieval times, the state had all the power and the subjects had no rights the state didn't grant - it's funny how this aligns exactly with the supreme central authority "progressives" want us to regress to.

In medieval times, feudal lords and the like held the power, and youre right, they did lack rights, they also lacked democracy, which we have the pleasure to experience, although its far from perfect, especially with disastrous decisions like citizens united distorting our democratic election process. Progressives want to do no such thing, this is a ridiculous claim that lies completely unfounded and helps to show your blatant dishonesty in regards to progressive ideals. Utilizing a government by the people for the people to benefit the people has nothing to do with slipping back into medieval times. What policies would you show that support your claim?

Classical liberalism was a rejection of that sort of ideology; "progressive" liberalism is all about backsliding into the same tyranny.

Classical liberalism was valid at the time, but once the people in europe got a taste of unregulated capitalism, they fought tooth and nail for the state to intervene, much like America. The history of labor struggle and the state involvement in capitalism is intriguing.

You said "her body."

Being reliant on your mother is normal for mammalian offspring; it doesn't mean they don't have their own body.

Again, your "common sense" was just error.

You continually equate a fetus, as if it is as important as the women carrying it. I shouldnt have to explain why thats ridiculous.

I didn't say I opposed all taxation. Taxation for the sake of nothing more than giving your property to someone else is the government forcing charity at gunpoint, however, and is blatantly immoral.

Oh, you dont oppose all taxation? So you only oppose the so called forcible seizure of property when it benefits a single mother who gets food stamps? God forbid the tyrannical government uses taxes to help those of us less privileged. :lamo

David_N · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Henrin said:
There is no doubt that stealing peoples property can bring great benefits. There is great benefits that the robber or those he is helping can have from his deeds, just as there is great benefits people can have from the government stealing peoples property. Your argument is really only saying that because theft can have benefits that it should be supported and practiced by the government. I'm sorry if I don't consider that a very logically or morally sound argument.

You keep throwing out the word stealing, technically, you may be correct, taxes are stealing, but you need to realize what society would be like without taxes. Every. Country. On. Earth. collects taxes, and everyone benefits, even though they may not see it. Countries without taxes are **** holes, blatant **** holes, they dont have a state that can do what the people need, thats a fact. Somalia?

JayDubya · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

David_N said:
Oh, I know what the standard was, youre trying to equate a fetus to a pregnant woman, which is barbaric in nature, considering the implications of such a ludicrious proposal.

"Everyone is equal and should have their human rights defended" is not barbarism. It's the literal opposite of the might makes right mentality of a barbarian.

If you want barbarism, look to those who advocate for inequality and want to deny personhood from human beings so they can be exploited or killed. Now, who would that describe?

You continually equate a fetus, as if it is as important as the women carrying it. I shouldnt have to explain why thats ridiculous.

You absolutely do have to show your work - by all means, explain why you support bigotry against some human beings.

I think we are all equal and should have our human rights protected. If someone attacks and kills a born human in aggression, that is no different and no better than an unborn human being killed in aggression.

Oh, you dont oppose all taxation? So you only oppose the so called forcible seizure of property when it benefits a single mother who gets food stamps? God forbid the tyrannical government uses taxes to help those of us less privileged. :lamo

I already went to the doctor and checked my privilege last week, and don't worry, it's working just fine.

You're damn right I oppose taking the property of one citizen for no reason but to give it to another. Charity is not the role of the state.

Removable Mind · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

GunFora said:
So there is no such thing as partial-birth abortion? You might want to look that up.

Didn't say there wasn't such thing. I said it was against the law.

GunFora · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

minnie616 said:
The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice disagrees.

Religious Liberty | Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice

They must be a lefty organization. The left puts very little value on human life.

GunFora · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

minnie616 said:
The line has already been drawn at viability ( the age when the unborn can survive outside the womb with artificial medical aids if needed. )

Not in the opinion of the person I was conversing with.

Frank Apisa · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

JayDubya said:
False.

Nope. Absolutely true.

Nothing gratuitous about objective fact.

Your assertion is a purely gratuitous assertion.

Your acceptance of fact is not required for it to be fact. Your denials of fact indicate that your argument is with reality, not me.

You do not determine what is fact...and what is not.

I do not accept what you assert to be fact...as fact.

In fact...it isn't fact.

Frank Apisa · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Henrin said:
Then don't accept facts. It makes you look stupid, but hey, you're the one that has to live with that, not me.

I accept facts. I do not accept gratuitous assertions as facts.

year2late · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

Scrabaholic said:
Which god? Mine is pro-choice.

GunFora said:
There's only one God. I'm not extremely religious and even I know that.

year2late said:
And different religions interpret the Bible differently.

GunFora said:
Interpretation is subjective.
It is what it is. If I told you that the sky is blue and you interpret it differently, it doesn't change the fact that the sky is blue.

First of all, there are many religions with different gods.

If you are speaking to one Judeo-Christian god. OK.

So what did your "there is only one God" comment mean?

There is only one God or one interpretation of God that suits you?

But there most emphatically are religions and their associated interpretations of the Bible that allow for a pro-choice POV.

year2late · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

GunFora said:
Just bringing up the fact that it has happened.

You seemed to be oblivious to the implication of it being illegal.

minnie616 · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

GunFora said:
They must be a lefty organization. The left puts very little value on human life.

The RCRC is made up many religions each with

unique, diverse views of our various member organizations – views which are grounded in thousands of years of scriptural texts and accepted beliefs around the moral agency of people to make the decisions that are best for them and their reproductive lives.
...

Member Organizations

American Jewish Committee

American Jewish Congress

Anti-Defamation League

Catholics for Choice

Central Conference of American Rabbis

Disciples for Choice

Episcopal Church

Episcopal Women’s Caucus

General Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church

Jewish Reconstructionist Movement

Jewish Women International

Lutheran Women’s Caucus

Methodist Federation for Social Action

Metropolitan Community Church

NA’AMAT USA

National Council of Jewish Women

Presbyterian Mission Agency

Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO)

Rabbinical Assembly

Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association

Society for Humanistic Judaism

Union for Reform Judaism

Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations

Unitarian Universalist Women’s Federation

United Church of Christ

United Methodist Women

Women of Reform Judaism

Women’s League for Conservative Judaism

Coalition Members | Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice

minnie616 · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

GunFora said:
They must be a lefty organization. The left puts very little value on human life.

It is not that the RCRC does value human life.
It is not even that they do not value the unborn.
They value all human life.
But they do value the life of the woman more than the life of the unborn.

GunFora · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

minnie616 said:
It is not that the RCRC does value human life.
It is not even that they do not value the unborn.
They value all human life.
But they do value the life of the woman more than the life of the unborn.

...and that's a damn shame, ma'am.

JayDubya · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

minnie616 said:
But they do value the life of the woman more than the life of the unborn.

So they're bigots, then.

minnie616 · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

GunFora said:
...and that's a damn shame, ma'am.

To you maybe.

Religions have many different--and changing--tenets about abortion. Some oppose abortion in all cases because they believe human life begins when an egg and sperm meet. They hold this belief even though medical science defines pregnancy as beginning with the implantation of the fertilized egg. Others believe abortion must be allowed in cases of rape and incest. Some believe abortion is required in certain circumstances, such as when a woman's life is in danger.
Many religions believe the decision must be the woman's because she is the person most affected.
Christians and Jews agree that all life is sacred--the life of a woman as well as the potential life of a fetus. Many Protestant Christians emphasize the New Testament's teaching of the priesthood of all believers, meaning that everyone has direct access to God and therefore the ability to do God's will.

....

Because we believe in the sanctity of human life that we believe a child has the right to enter the world wanted and loved. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy upon individual women, upon their loved ones and their families, and we recognize that they, not we, must determine what is best for those directly concerned and involved.

Read more at The Biblical Basis for Being Pro-Choice: Bible, abortion, Christians, religion - Beliefnet.com - Page 3

The RCRC

is expanding beyond the bitter abortion debate to seek solutions to pressing national problems such as disparities in access to reproductive health services, unintended pregnancy, the spread of HIV/AIDS and STIs in already marginalized communities, inadequate health care, and severe attacks on privacy and the moral agency of women. We support access to comprehensive sexuality education, family planning and contraception, affordable child care and health care, and adoption services as well as safe, legal, abortion services, regardless of income or any other unique circumstance. We work for public policies that ensure the medical, economic, and educational resources necessary for healthy families and communities that are equipped to nurture children in peace and love.

Policy | Religious Coalition For Reproductive Choice

AGENT J · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

JayDubya said:
Punishing and preventing homicide is not authoritarian.

The night watchman is part of even the most minimal state possible. If you don't have laws against killing, you don't have a state, you have anarchy.

Legal abortion is predicated on the notion that only the state gives rights and the state is right to restrict personhood from those who are deemed by the leadership to be undesirable or exploitable.

here we go again
abortion =/= homicide
facts, law, dictionaries all prove you wrong LMAO
your arguments will always fail and be destroyed by poster after poster cause they are based on a lie

AGENT J · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

JayDubya said:
"Everyone is equal and should have their human rights defended" is not barbarism. .

I agree the part that is factually dishonest is thats not why your views condone, they want the woman to be a lesser and you want to **** all over her current legal and human rights. You dont care about them at all and people could have the opinion that is barbaric.

Human rights has NOTHING to do with your stances nor does it support your stance in anyway LMAO
another posted lie of yours destoryed

Frank Apisa · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

AGENT J said:
here we go again
abortion =/= homicide
facts, law, dictionaries all prove you wrong LMAO
your arguments will always fail and be destroyed by poster after poster cause they are based on a lie

Either a LIE...or an unconscionable mistake.

Either way...the Dems were right to stand up for women's rights.

JayDubya · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

The widespread failure to understand English words with clear meanings, especially those directly derived from Latin roots, is beyond tiresome.

AGENT J · Sep 28, 2015

Re: Democrats block 20-week abortion ban

JayDubya said:
The widespread failure to understand English words with clear meanings, especially those directly derived from Latin roots, is beyond tiresome.

I agree you should stop since they all prove you 100% factually wrong as proven many times LMAO
Abortion =/= homicide, a fact you can NEVER change

disagree GO FOR IT!, proved ONE fact that supports the lie you keep repeating . . .ONE

Democrats block 20-week abortion ban[W:123***459]

JayDubya

Struggler

JayDubya

Struggler

Henrin

David_N

David_N

JayDubya

Struggler

Removable Mind

Irremovable Intelligence

GunFora

GunFora

Frank Apisa

Frank Apisa

year2late

IIJAFM

year2late

IIJAFM

minnie616

minnie616

GunFora

JayDubya

Struggler

minnie616

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"

Frank Apisa

JayDubya

Struggler

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"