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Health Insurers Seek Hefty Rate Boosts

PirateMk1 said:
Then please get a constitutional amendment and a clear 3/4s majority. This under the cover of darkness by a bare majority present at the last minute is bull****.
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i'd be fine with an amendment for clarification, but medicare isn't unconstitutional. it falls under the general welfare, interstate commerce, and necessary and proper clauses.
 
Helix said:
i'd be fine with an amendment for clarification, but medicare isn't unconstitutional. it falls under the general welfare, interstate commerce, and necessary and proper clauses.
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No it don't. It is so unconstitutional that Roberts had to rewrite part of the law to try to make it a tax.

Like I said if people really want this then it should be light of day and CLEAR majority of support. 50.001 don't cut it and leads to fights like we got now.
 
PirateMk1 said:
No it don't. It is so unconstitutional that Roberts had to rewrite part of the law to try to make it a tax.

Like I said if people really want this then it should be light of day and CLEAR majority of support. 50.001 don't cut it and leads to fights like we got now.
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the ACA is a half measure. i support medicare for all.
 
Helix said:
the ACA is a half measure. i support medicare for all.
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Then get a clear decisive majority so the rift is minimal. Otherwise we go through the ACA back and forth bull**** again.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Then get a clear decisive majority so the rift is minimal. Otherwise we go through the ACA back and forth bull**** again.
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the ACA was a missed opportunity, or a piss poor compromise. at best, it was a step to a first world healthcare system.
 
Helix said:
the ACA was a missed opportunity, or a piss poor compromise. at best, it was a step to a first world healthcare system.
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What "compromise" and with who? Since the democrats basically wrote the bill themselves and it got 0 votes from the Republicans, it must have been democrats making compromises for other democrats. Either way, the democrats under the Pelosi/Reid leadership are 100% responsible for that turd and no amount of spinning in the world can ever change that.
 
tres borrachos said:
Nobody who is serious plays the "what if" game.
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Well, you may be thinking of a context where that would make at least some sense, but what about all the studies that involve modelling and projections? These are conducted by organizations like DOD, CBO, OMB, and a lot of private sector think tanks like Rand.

Grim17 said:
What "compromise" and with who?
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A compromise with the insurance companies, the hospitals, the doctors, and Big Pharma, to name a few. If the GOP leadership had been more willing to get involved, perhaps the legislation could have been improved. They're the natural allies of those powerful vested interest. If they had taken a position of "ya better accept this (improved) deal cuz it's the best yer gonna get," maybe some of the more troublesome elements of the package could have been smoothed out.

I'd describe that as behaving responsibly — accepting yer (temporary) minority status and doing what you can, as opposed to engaging in a campaign of doing everything possible to cause the reform effort to fail. Some of the members from days past, like Gerry Ford and Bob Dole, real leaders, men who put country before party, would have taken that path, imo. Seems like we've lost that, and suffer for it.

>>the democrats under the Pelosi/Reid leadership are 100% responsible

Just like we're responsible for SS and Medicare. Imperfect to be sure, but vital and reformable.
 
Grim17 said:
Well, it looks like the promises by Obama and the democrats of lower insurance premiums is turning out to be another lie fed to the American people to pass that train wreck known as Obamacare.

Read it and weep America.





http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/05/22/obamacare-entering-the-jaws-phase/
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I think it is quite realistic to speak of a lie in this case. You are right. What is it? 15 percent of US gdp go on medical care? Why should premiums be less than 15 percent of income!
?
 
Grim17 said:
What "compromise" and with who?
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democrats from right wing states. the goalposts should have been set at single payer like the rest of the first world. instead, they settled for the ACA with no public option. letting the heritage foundation design our national health care policy was a big mistake.

Grim17 said:
Since the democrats basically wrote the bill themselves and it got 0 votes from the Republicans, it must have been democrats making compromises for other democrats. Either way, the democrats under the Pelosi/Reid leadership are 100% responsible for that turd and no amount of spinning in the world can ever change that.
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yep. catering to the right at all was a huge mistake, and the whole thing was a missed opportunity to actually fix our health care system. occasionally, you just have to ignore the side that's wrong.
 
ludin said:
this is what happens when you demand that insurance cover everyone no matter what their ailements are.
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LOL no it does not. This is what happens when private industry can do whatever they want because they know the consumer will pay regardless.
 
Helix said:
they've been jacking up my rates by double digit percentages every year since i started working in 1999. we should have single payer like other first world countries.
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So you'd prefer half your paycheck then?
6 week waits for an MRI?
 
Grim17 said:
Hey, you're the one who supports Obama and the Democrats who shoved this turd down America's throat.
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Wrong, you should try to get your facts straight before you run your mouth.
 
Grim17 said:
What "compromise" and with who? Since the democrats basically wrote the bill themselves and it got 0 votes from the Republicans, it must have been democrats making compromises for other democrats. Either way, the democrats under the Pelosi/Reid leadership are 100% responsible for that turd and no amount of spinning in the world can ever change that.
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Actually, the bill was written by a group of six senators, three of whom were republicans
 
PeteEU said:
LOL no it does not. This is what happens when private industry can do whatever they want because they know the consumer will pay regardless.
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and you would be wrong.

you can't demand that insurance companies have to cover a whole host of things and not expect prices to rise substantially.
 
Renae said:
So you'd prefer half your paycheck then?
6 week waits for an MRI?
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6 weeks if you are lucky or almost dying try a year or more.
 
Renae said:
So you'd prefer half your paycheck then?
6 week waits for an MRI?
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your argument is that i'll lose half my salary if we enact single payer? right.

are you keen on twenty five grand heart attacks and delivering primary care for the poor at emergency rooms? FFS.

you know what, though? i'm so tired of pissed off irrational right wingers that i will just say yes. take half of my paycheck if it means that we can finally fix our stupid employer specific health care distribution system, even though it wouldn't take half of my paycheck to do it. ****, the system is so poorly designed that my premiums have been going up by double digit percentages every single year since 2000, so we might as well just cap it at half of my paycheck.
 
Helix said:
your argument is that i'll lose half my salary if we enact single payer? right.

are you keen on twenty five grand heart attacks and delivering primary care for the poor at emergency rooms? FFS.

you know what, though? i'm so tired of pissed off irrational right wingers that i will just say yes. take half of my paycheck if it means that we can finally fix our stupid employer specific health care distribution system, even though it wouldn't take half of my paycheck to do it. ****, the system is so poorly designed that my premiums have been going up by double digit percentages every single year since 2000, so we might as well just cap it at half of my paycheck.
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Im so tired of left wing utopianist that believe they can force us all into a collective healthcare system.
 
Renae said:
Im so tired of left wing utopianist that believe they can force us all into a collective healthcare system.
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i'm tired of this :

fig-kirkegaard20090310-1.webp
 
Helix said:
democrats from right wing states. the goalposts should have been set at single payer like the rest of the first world. instead, they settled for the ACA with no public option. letting the heritage foundation design our national health care policy was a big mistake.
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Yes, The Heritage Foundation back in 1989 worked hand in hand with Nancy Pelosi, a freshman congresswoman from the most liberal city in the United States, San Francisco, knowing that 20 years later she would be speaker of the house with the democrats controlling the senate and the white house.

<sarcasm off>

Who controlled the house?
Democrats

Who controlled the senate?
Democrats

Who put the bill together?
Democrats

Who voted for the bill?
Democrats

Who didn't read the bill before voting yes on it?
Every single democrat, including the president.

How many Republicans voted yes?
0

How many republicans played a significant role in writing the bill?
0

It's funny how people call the Iraq war "Bush's war" even though the bill authorizing the use of force received bi-partisan support from the house and senate, and Bush didn't lie to the American people to get that support.... Yet the ACA got 0 support from republicans, they played no role in it's construction, the president and congress lied to the American people to get it passed, and the administration hired people like Jonathan Gruber who specifically wrote the bill with the intent to deceive the public, and people like you want to blame "red states" and some proposal written 25 years ago by a conservative think tank for that turd?

Good luck with that.
 
Helix said:
or we could fix the US system.
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Excuse me, but fixing the US system is what the left has been doing for the last 50 years and look where it's gotten us... There is no such thing as a perfect system, but we had the closest thing to it, that allowed everyone the freedom and opportunity to succeed, and with determination and work could at least have a decent life. That has slipped farther and farther away each passing year as we have moved closer and closer to the European model of social engineering, where people believe a good life is their right, not something requiring hard work.
 
Grim17 said:
Yes, The Heritage Foundation back in 1989 worked hand in hand with Nancy Pelosi, a freshman congresswoman from the most liberal city in the United States, San Francisco, knowing that 20 years later she would be speaker of the house with the democrats controlling the senate and the white house.

<sarcasm off>

Who controlled the house?
Democrats

Who controlled the senate?
Democrats

Who put the bill together?
Democrats

Who voted for the bill?
Democrats

Who didn't read the bill before voting yes on it?
Every single democrat, including the president.

How many Republicans voted yes?
0

How many republicans played a significant role in writing the bill?
0
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the bill was a mistake regardless of who voted for it. there should have been a public option at the very least. they were idiots for compromising that away. and yes, though it's not identical to the heritage plan, the ACA can trace some of its roots to a right wing alternative to single payer.

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/hl218.pdf

and before you get all hot and bothered, i don't support the ACA. the pre-existing condition part and letting kids stay on their parents' insurance until 26 are about the only parts of it i like.


Grim17 said:
It's funny how people call the Iraq war "Bush's war" even though the bill authorizing the use of force received bi-partisan support from the house and senate, and Bush didn't lie to the American people to get that support.... Yet the ACA got 0 support from republicans, they played no role in it's construction, the president and congress lied to the American people to get it passed, and the administration hired people like Jonathan Gruber who specifically wrote the bill with the intent to deceive the public, and people like you want to blame "red states" and some proposal written 25 years ago by a conservative think tank for that turd?
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no, i blame spineless democrats for not solving the problem when they had the chance.

Grim17 said:
Good luck with that.
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thanks.
 
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