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Thread: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    This is my concern, why all of a sudden now given North Korea's actions over the past several years?
    Given their nation's hellish inner workings, pathetic threats, and all the sanctions we've already put, and rightfully so, on them, I don't know what you're whining about.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    I'm supportive of this move, although as Van Basten notes there can't possibly be much in the way of sanctions that are left unused with little or no direct change in behaviour to date.

    I'm surprised those who championed Obama's rapprochement with Cuba aren't calling for a similar move with North Korea. It's been a good 50 plus years that North Korea has been isolated by America and subject to American trade embargoes and other sanctions with no appreciable result - pretty similar to Cuba. Since many seem to believe that rapprochement with Cuba will lift the lifestyles of everyday Cubans and move the country away from communism and the Castros, why not try the same tactic in North Korea? Aren't you tired of the cost of stationing 40,000 American troops on the border of the demilitarized zone?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Same question from post #8, why now?
    Because of the Sony Hack which our government says was sponsored or directly carried out by the DPRK.


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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm supportive of this move, although as Van Basten notes there can't possibly be much in the way of sanctions that are left unused with little or no direct change in behaviour to date.

    I'm surprised those who championed Obama's rapprochement with Cuba aren't calling for a similar move with North Korea. It's been a good 50 plus years that North Korea has been isolated by America and subject to American trade embargoes and other sanctions with no appreciable result - pretty similar to Cuba. Since many seem to believe that rapprochement with Cuba will lift the lifestyles of everyday Cubans and move the country away from communism and the Castros, why not try the same tactic in North Korea? Aren't you tired of the cost of stationing 40,000 American troops on the border of the demilitarized zone?
    I see them as completely different situations. Cuba had normal relations with many countries outside of the US and managed to achieve a, while poor, decent life style for the citizenry. Not that I am commending them, rationing toilet paper is not a good thing under any circumstances nor are the conditions that cause that requirement. While Castro was an ass, he was not an insane almost comic book level supervillian.

    NK is completely different. They are totally closed off even from their supportive neighbors like China and thrive on that situation (or the people at the top do, more specifically). I am not sure normalizing relations with them is even possible. NK's government would want that first and I see no evidence that they do. There is probably little we can do with them short of war and that would be a bloody guerrilla campaign (which they have been prepping for for half a century now) and frankly not worth the cost to treasure and lives in my opinion. I just don't see a way of getting them to open up right now that wouldn't be very bloody.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    I see them as completely different situations. Cuba had normal relations with many countries outside of the US and managed to achieve a, while poor, decent life style for the citizenry. Not that I am commending them, rationing toilet paper is not a good thing under any circumstances nor are the conditions that cause that requirement. While Castro was an ass, he was not an insane almost comic book level supervillian.

    NK is completely different. They are totally closed off even from their supportive neighbors like China and thrive on that situation (or the people at the top do, more specifically). I am not sure normalizing relations with them is even possible. NK's government would want that first and I see no evidence that they do. There is probably little we can do with them short of war and that would be a bloody guerrilla campaign (which they have been prepping for for half a century now) and frankly not worth the cost to treasure and lives in my opinion. I just don't see a way of getting them to open up right now that wouldn't be very bloody.
    Fair enough, but the point remains the same. Sanctions and isolation has had little or no effect on the government structures of North Korea and the US in particular has spent hundreds of $billions, if not into the $trillions, isolating and containing them. China, in my view, is far more effective at containing North Korea and they have a far greater national interest in the area in continuing that containment. After 50 plus years of US supports and foreign aid, South Korea should be well able to defend themselves now, at least initially, if not completely.

    I guess, as I get older, I'm more inclined to support a more isolationist approach to foreign affairs in Asia and the Middle East.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    The most recent articles Ive seen indicate the SONY hack was an inside job done by disgruntled former employees and not North Korea.

    "Stammberger said a team of nine analysts dug through data including Norse's worldwide network of millions of Web sensors, internal Sony documents and underground hacker chat rooms. Leads suggesting North Korea as the culprit turned out to be red herrings and dead ends, he said.
    Instead, the data pointed to a former employee who may have collaborated with outside hackers. The employee, who left the studio in a May restructuring, had the qualifications and access necessary to carry out the crime, according to Stammberger.
    Moreover, names of company servers and passwords were programmed into the malware that infiltrated the studio's network, suggesting hackers had inside knowledge of the studio's systems, Stammberger said."
    Sony insider -- not North Korea -- likely involved in hack, experts say - LA Times

    Sanctions are apparently a great idea for oppressive communist regimes NOT occupying Cuba...but one cant help but hope the reasons and rationale are at lest legit.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fair enough, but the point remains the same. Sanctions and isolation has had little or no effect on the government structures of North Korea and the US in particular has spent hundreds of $billions, if not into the $trillions, isolating and containing them. China, in my view, is far more effective at containing North Korea and they have a far greater national interest in the area in continuing that containment. After 50 plus years of US supports and foreign aid, South Korea should be well able to defend themselves now, at least initially, if not completely.

    I guess, as I get older, I'm more inclined to support a more isolationist approach to foreign affairs in Asia and the Middle East.
    The time will be right when their government collapses, which may be soon given how unstable things are right now.

    At least thats how I see it, i am far from a foreign policy expert though.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    The time will be right when their government collapses, which may be soon given how unstable things are right now.

    At least thats how I see it, i am far from a foreign policy expert though.
    If the North Korean rule hasn't collapsed in over 50 years with far more stringent sanctions and economic impacts than on Cuba, what makes you realistically presume it's going to collapse anytime soon?

    Yours is the reverse argument of those who supported the Cuba move who claimed that sanction hadn't gotten rid of the Castros so maybe it was time to try friendship and love.

    I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here since I support the North Korean move and thought the Cuban move was a mistake.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If the North Korean rule hasn't collapsed in over 50 years with far more stringent sanctions and economic impacts than on Cuba, what makes you realistically presume it's going to collapse anytime soon?

    Yours is the reverse argument of those who supported the Cuba move who claimed that sanction hadn't gotten rid of the Castros so maybe it was time to try friendship and love.

    I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here since I support the North Korean move and thought the Cuban move was a mistake.
    the old cult of personality is gone with Kim senior's death. It has nothing to do with sanctions, but internal power dynamics.

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    Re: Obama Imposes New Sanctions On North Korea In Response To Sony Hack

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    You really have to have unreasonable hatred for the administration to make North Korea the victim in this.
    You really have to be excessively partisan to make this about the administration, rather than the action itself.

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