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Thread: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So the drone is targeted after known Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives, and shoots a missile into their meeting killing them.

    What then, does that make the 'civilians' who are hosting their meeting. Material support?

    Thing of it is that we keep hearing of reports about civilians killed in drone strikes, but we never get the back story of what these 'civilians' were doing in such close proximity to known Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives.
    If you are curious about the people actually killed by drone strikes and such, check out Jeremy Scahill's documentary "Dirty Wars", which is available on Netflix.

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    If you are curious about the people actually killed by drone strikes and such, check out Jeremy Scahill's documentary "Dirty Wars", which is available on Netflix.
    In 1998, Scahill traveled to Iraq for Democracy Now! and Pacifica Radio, where he reported on the impact of the economic sanctions on Iraq and the "No-Fly Zone" bombings in Northern and Southern Iraq.[12] An article in AlterNet has described Jeremy Scahill as a "progressive journalist".[13]
    Jeremy Scahill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Well, OK. But I'm expecting a rather one sided treatment.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    So the drone is targeted after known Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives, and shoots a missile into their meeting killing them.

    What then, does that make the 'civilians' who are hosting their meeting. Material support?

    Thing of it is that we keep hearing of reports about civilians killed in drone strikes, but we never get the back story of what these 'civilians' were doing in such close proximity to known Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives.
    Ummmmm I have not heard of one instance of people having a meeting for them being referred to as civilians....

    This is what happened in this case
    “At around 3:30am, US forces conducted an air strike in Aab Josh village of Baraki Barak district,” said the district governor Mohammad Amin.

    “The air strike hit a residential house killing five and wounding six civilians,” he told AFP.
    Houses can be close together and sometimes we miss, or sometimes the combatants haven't been in the area for hours and we still fire, like in the case of that grandma I posted above. Sometimes we attack people for doing things terrorists might do, like 3 men doing jumping jacks, sometimes we attack sim cards of cell phones not having any idea what's on the other side, and sometimes we attack for no apparent reason at all...

    Again I have not heard of the situation you described happening once. And even if it did (which I certainly didn't in logar) how do you know the Taliban didn't force entry? Do we bomb hostage situations here at home?

    Your argument amounts to the same bs argument Israel uses to defend the bombing of un schools...
    Last edited by b_dubz; 12-29-14 at 12:52 PM.

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Jeremy Scahill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Well, OK. But I'm expecting a rather one sided treatment.
    There is only one accurate narrative to the whole thing anyway... Like it or not this is it...

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Ummmmm I have not heard of one instance of people having a meeting for them being referred to as civilians....

    This is what happened in this case

    Houses can be close together and sometimes we miss, or sometimes the combatants haven't been in the area for hours and we still fire, like in the case of that grandma I posted above. Sometimes we attack people for doing things terrorists might do, like 3 men doing jumping jacks, sometimes we attack sim cards of cell phones not having any idea what's on the other side, and sometimes we attack for no apparent reason at all...

    Again I have not heard of the situation you described happening once. And even if it did (which I certainly didn't in logar) how do you know the Taliban didn't force entry? Do we bomb hostage situations here at home?

    Your argument amounts to the same bs argument Israel uses to defend the bombing of un schools...
    Given your examples, it seems that you are also suffering from a distinct lack of hard information about what sort of data is being used to make the decisions for drone attacks as I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    There is only one accurate narrative to the whole thing anyway... Like it or not this is it...
    Again, a lack of hard information. Seems that the US government doesn't want it's people to look too closely at what it's up to combating terrorism in this region and other regions.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Given your examples, it seems that you are also suffering from a distinct lack of hard information about what sort of data is being used to make the decisions for drone attacks as I am.
    No I am much more informed about the strikes themselves, and when they actually have a reason or he local gov/press gets it wrong they are very quick to say "no these people had aq or Taliban or whatever ties" they usually don't release the evidence of these ties, but they are very quick to say they had them, and where not civilians.

    Furthermore they almost never do this, probably because they usually don't have any ties...

    As for the data being used, it seems to be hunches. Allot of civilians deaths are a result of signature strikes, which is that jumping jacks jacks situation I gave above. Some (like the grandma that launched a congressional investigation) there was no info. AQ had driven past a few hours ago, and they bombed her. Why? No one knows, not even congress...

    Basically they just mess up allot. Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt for KILLING CIVILIANS.

    Again, a lack of hard information. Seems that the US government doesn't want it's people to look too closely at what it's up to combating terrorism in this region and other regions.
    Your right their, they don't. We wouldn't even know about allot of these strikes if it where not for local reporting and news agency's (like the guardian) prying into it. The reason they don't want us to know about it is fairly obvious though, they kill people by mistake/for no reason all the time, and if Americans knew the full extent of it people would be up in arms. Plus they want to continue the drone program and that would force its stop.

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by JUG View Post
    But apparently torturing is productive. Right, CIA?
    The use of drones denies the terrorist targets to kill and their chance at eternal happiness in heaven. That is why it is effective psychologically against them. It plays on their belief system. Nothing increased the number of terrorists like the invasion of Iraq did for that very reason. 100's of thousands of infidel targets was a huge attraction.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 12-29-14 at 01:34 PM.

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The use of drones denies the terrorist targets to kill and their chance at eternal happiness in heaven. That is why it is effective psychologically against them. It plays on their belief system. Nothing increased the number of terrorists like the invasion of Iraq did for that very reason.
    Ummmm drones probably increased the number of terrorists more because if you drone strike someone's family for no reason, they are likely to go join to opposition.

    Furthermore that whole thing about heaven is bull. They think dying in combat gets them into heaven. Pretty sure they count drone strikes as dying in combat...

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Ummmm drones probably increased the number of terrorists more because if you drone strike someone's family for no reason, they are likely to go join to opposition.

    Furthermore that whole thing about heaven is bull. They think dying in combat gets them into heaven. Pretty sure they count drone strikes as dying in combat...
    Actually they believe that killing infidels is the only sure path to nirvana. Dying is not enough. The blood of the infidels they murder provides atonement for all their sins.

    Civilian casualties never happen with conventional warfare? Drones are far more discerning than carpet bombing or invasions. So you are saying we should just leave the terrorists alone? That didn't work out well in the past.

    Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 terrorists, when he came to study at Hamburg, Germany, reportedly developed a serious pornography addiction. This was when he started attending the radical mosque, where he heard the gospel of jihad.
    His terrorist colleagues, in the days before 9/11, frequented strip clubs, buying lap dances and drinking alcohol, any one of which would earn them eternal damnation. But, according to writings found after their attacks, they were confident in their salvation. By crashing the airplanes and murdering thousands, they were offering up human sacrifices and atoning for their own sins
    .
    Lethal 'gospel': Islamic terrorists believe killing "infidels" is only sure way to heaven
    Last edited by iguanaman; 12-29-14 at 03:40 PM.

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    Re: Drone strikes counterproductive, says secret CIA report

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Actually they believe that killing infidels is the only sure path to nirvana. Dying is not enough. The blood of the infidels they murder provides atonement for all their sins.

    Civilian casualties never happen with conventional warfare? Drones are far more discerning than carpet bombing or invasions. So you are saying we should just leave the terrorists alone? That didn't work out well in the past.

    .
    Lethal 'gospel': Islamic terrorists believe killing "infidels" is only sure way to heaven
    No. Some also believe dying in combat will suffice, and different groups have radically different ideas of what will give salvation. Your quoting one group of extremists, when there are many, that at times fight each other, and hate each other. Also generally speaking if someone is legitimately targeted in a drone strike, they will probably have killed some "infidels" already. I would hope anyway, although we seem to target innocents all the time.

    No I never said civilian casualty's happen with conventional warfare. But with a weapons system that is so accurate, you would think they could get it right more. Also with things like signature strikes, they are attacking based on what people are doing (like exercising in groups) which is certainly not indicative of terrorists. Signature strikes are a failed method of attack.

    And yes I would suggest we leave them alone, or negotiate for peace. We made this problem by toppling Saddam, what makes you think more war will fix it?

    When have we ever "left the terrorists alone"? We haven't...

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