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Thread: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

  1. #501
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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Just curious, you don't think that jobs each have a definitive and virtually quantifiable worth to whomever is paying the salaries, and that the higher valued workers don't get paid more? I've worked in Corporate America since 1984, and every place I've ever worked, that was and still is exactly the mentality. It isn't a child's way of thinking....big adults think it too.
    Workers, almost by definition, provide greater value than their pay.

    No, actually, there isn't a single, definitive, quantifiable worth to someone's labor.

    I've never heard of an organization called "Corporate America." And no, where you worked, this was never the mentality. The mentality of your boss was "how little can I get away with paying this person." If they could get you to do twice as much work for the same pay, they'd absolutely do it.
    Last edited by Deuce; 12-16-14 at 03:55 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Workers, almost by definition, provide greater value than their pay.

    No, actually, there isn't a single, definitive, quantifiable worth to someone's labor.
    I guess you never ran a payroll or a cost center.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I guess you never ran a payroll or a cost center.
    Surplus value of labor is the reason you hire a person in the first place. Your boss makes money off the work you do.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Surplus value of labor is the reason you hire a person in the first place. Your boss makes money off the work you do.
    That's the case with every employee but it has nothing to do with what you pay an employee.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That's the case with every employee but it has nothing to do with what you pay an employee.
    Precisely. And that's why the wage you pay that person is not the only conceivable amount you can pay them.

    Every business is a team effort. A large group of people perform various tasks that result in income for the company. It's a group value of labor. And there's no law of physics or economics that says the CEO has to take home a million and the cash register guy can't even feed himself.

    How much of that value is actually paid to the worker, and how much is taken by the company? Why do people seem to think there's only one possible distribution?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    state workers lost their collective bargaining rights in 2005 by executive fiat in; teachers in 2012.
    Again, if you can demonstrate this, I would like to see it. But I think you are attempting to apply individual state decisions to the entire demographic.

    they're teaching your ****ing kids. they deserve to not be treated like dog ****.
    Agreed. Which is part of why I have consistently argued that we need to increase their pay. However, they don't teach my kids (currently, at least). We don't think much of our current school system, which is why we home school. It's worth noting that teachers are also disproportionately more likely to send their kids to private school, indicating that perhaps we are not alone in our assessment.

    raise the ****ing price of goods a little. i'm not arguing for a fifty thousand dollar a year base pay at ****ing walmart, i'm arguing for better control over schedules and more access to promotion.
    The vast majority of Wal Mart's managers are former associates. They already promote from within.

    for myself, i'd ask for a little better job security
    There is almost no such thing, outside of union and tenure, and even then, not as much as people think. Your "Job Security" is your ability to provide value-added, your skill set.

    in my industry, everything is fixed duration and independent contract work now. that ****ing sucks. you can't get yourself established in a particular place, and they fire you on the end date even if you do a good job. it sucks, man. it really sucks.
    I've worked contracts as well - I can get that. You really have two jobs - this job, and keeping an eye out for the next job. In my industry, contract pay got cut sharply (~25-40% ish, depending on who you were and where you are), which is part of why I left that position for my current one. The old company offered to hire me on as a full time worker in a higher billet instead, but this job was better for some home-life considerations. But I've done the move-every-few-years thing as well, you can't buy a house, it's a pain.

    However, anger at your situation is misplaced when directed against those who manage to offer employment to our least skilled workforce. When you say "increase the cost of hiring our low-skill low-experience citizens" what you are in effect saying is "reduce demand for hiring our low-skill low-experience citizens". You're (probably) not going to fix the problems of your industry by kicking poor people out of jobs.

    you can't get yourself established in a particular place, and they fire you on the end date even if you do a good job. it sucks, man. it really sucks. i'm likely to lose this job in July. it's only because i kick ass at what i do that i got a year extension.
    Bro I am sorry to hear that. At least you know so you can plan. What industry do you work, if you don't mind me asking?

    I've already commented extensively on why i think the education paywall is really bad for the country. refer to earlier posts.
    Utilizing government funding for education has created an education bubble associated with massive debt, underutilized resources, and wasted income opportunities. "This is a problem" =/= "therefore government should run it".

    yeah, but a lot of people do get treated that way, and it's going to keep getting worse.
    Well, employees will be compensated according to their relative value added. That's why guys like Sessions are right to point out that the biggest losers of the Presidents' Immigration plan is low-income legal American citizens, who now have to compete for jobs with a higher supply of labor, driving down the price they can charge. When labor is relatively scarce, income is higher because you are in greater relative demand - Wal Mart associates in South Dakota, I understand, are making around $17 an hour right now - because labor there is scarcer.



    If you hate the contracting world, and are good at what you do, what is your plan to translate that into a permanent position?

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    More ignorant thinking. The barnacles have to work harder because they have no protections from management thuggery.
    Again, this is belied by the real world examples of it working in practice.

    Union members work at a "reasonable pace" and don't have to worry about management thuggery.






    You're not going to get me all riled up at the notion that those who take home more money have to work harder in order to get it. Gosh Darn? But it is entertaining how you don't see the contradiction in complaining in one breath that non-union employees are "barnacles" and in the next that they are more productive, instead of working at a "reasonable" pace
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-16-14 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why dont you just get a job that pays twice what you currently earn?
    Because I'm 70 years old. Employers don't hire people my age. If I were job hunting I'd be far better off as a Walmart employee.

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Again, if you can demonstrate this, I would like to see it. But I think you are attempting to apply individual state decisions to the entire demographic.
    State unions say they have little left to lose - Post-Tribune


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Agreed. Which is part of why I have consistently argued that we need to increase their pay. However, they don't teach my kids (currently, at least). We don't think much of our current school system, which is why we home school. It's worth noting that teachers are also disproportionately more likely to send their kids to private school, indicating that perhaps we are not alone in our assessment.
    my teacher parents didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The vast majority of Wal Mart's managers are former associates. They already promote from within.
    judging by how many of their workers are on public assistance, there's room to improve.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    There is almost no such thing, outside of union and tenure, and even then, not as much as people think. Your "Job Security" is your ability to provide value-added, your skill set.
    i've found this to be horse****. i was promoted up until my end date at my last job. looking back on it now, i was probably fired because my supervisor pissed off the business unit, and i was her help in the lab. had i been in a union, that never would have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I've worked contracts as well - I can get that. You really have two jobs - this job, and keeping an eye out for the next job. In my industry, contract pay got cut sharply (~25-40% ish, depending on who you were and where you are), which is part of why I left that position for my current one. The old company offered to hire me on as a full time worker in a higher billet instead, but this job was better for some home-life considerations. But I've done the move-every-few-years thing as well, you can't buy a house, it's a pain.

    However, anger at your situation is misplaced when directed against those who manage to offer employment to our least skilled workforce. When you say "increase the cost of hiring our low-skill low-experience citizens" what you are in effect saying is "reduce demand for hiring our low-skill low-experience citizens". You're (probably) not going to fix the problems of your industry by kicking poor people out of jobs.
    i'm for guaranteeing education and job training for them, as i've already said.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Bro I am sorry to hear that. At least you know so you can plan. What industry do you work, if you don't mind me asking?
    i'm in biochem / molecular / microbiological research. you'd think that would insulate me from some of this ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Utilizing government funding for education has created an education bubble associated with massive debt, underutilized resources, and wasted income opportunities. "This is a problem" =/= "therefore government should run it".
    i consider it an investment in our national intellectual resources. measures can be taken to control cost. for example, the educational / training guarantee could apply to public universities. this problem is fixable.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, employees will be compensated according to their relative value added. That's why guys like Sessions are right to point out that the biggest losers of the Presidents' Immigration plan is low-income legal American citizens, who now have to compete for jobs with a higher supply of labor, driving down the price they can charge. When labor is relatively scarce, income is higher because you are in greater relative demand - Wal Mart associates in South Dakota, I understand, are making around $17 an hour right now - because labor there is scarcer.
    as i said, i think this is an oversimplification. if you have no representation, your job is subject to the petty whim of every asshole above you. i'm only employed right now because my boss moved mountains to keep me on after the sequester ruined his chances of getting continued funding. he is an exceptional person, and so is our director.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    If you hate the contracting world, and are good at what you do, what is your plan to translate that into a permanent position?
    i'm probably going to have to move. really don't want to, but it is what it is, and my life is good even though i'm not sure what is going to happen at work.

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    Re: Walmart Threatened Workers For Trying To Organize, Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Again, this is belied by the real world examples of it working in practice.









    You're not going to get me all riled up at the notion that those who take home more money have to work harder in order to get it. Gosh Darn? But it is entertaining how you don't see the contradiction in complaining in one breath that non-union employees are "barnacles" and in the next that they are more productive, instead of working at a "reasonable" pace

    Show me your real world examples.


    And, what's to get riled up? You don't know what you're talking about.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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