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Thread: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

  1. #381
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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but it's your narrative that is contrary to the facts. Here are the details you seem not to be aware of. I suggest you read it all.

    Marc Thiessen Was Right About the "Library Tower Plot ...

    Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forums Weekly Standard


    Sep 8, 2009

    In an op-ed for Sunday's New York Times, former FBI special agent Ali Soufan wrote:

    Supporters of the enhanced interrogation techniques have jumped from claim to claim about their usefulness. They have asserted, for example, that harsh treatment led Mr. Mohammed to reveal the plot to attack the Library Tower in Los Angeles. But that plot was thwarted in 2002, and Mr. Mohammed was not arrested until 2003.
    This is not accurate. Soufan, who is a well-known critic of the CIA's so-called "enhanced" interrogation techniques, is simply repeating an ill-informed critique that has been made elsewhere.
    Earlier this year, in two pieces for Slate, Timothy Noah took former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen to task for claiming that the "enhanced" interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed led to a plot against the "Library Tower" (now known as the U.S. Bank Tower) being foiled. Noah argued that the Bush administration itself claimed this plot was thwarted in 2002, before Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was captured on March 1, 2003. Therefore, according to Noah, it is not possible that the same attack was averted in 2003, following the "enhanced" interrogations of KSM.
    Soufan repeats this argument in his op-ed. But with the release of portions of two formerly classified CIA analyses on August 24, we know that Noah and Soufan got it wrong. Marc Thiessen got it right. . . . .

    Another specious claim but the argument being made proves my point. The Library Tower plot was successfully foiled in 2002 as acknowledged in your own source. Where it derails into the realm of fantasy is its devolution into assertions that the facts don't count because someone floated a theory that others MIGHT have tried it at some undisclosed point in the future even though no such plot actually existed.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Did Dianne Feinstein torture anyone?
    You will have to ask her.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Again, the damage was done in the actions. This is only a bunch of words on a page (well, many pages actually) describing the actions.

    You may chose to hate/shoot the messenger, but its misguided anger. If the underlying objectionable actions never happened, then Dianne Feinstein's pen (figuratively speaking) would have NO clout.
    The damage was done by a treasonous democrat. People who object have given this very little serious thought. Or they are bedwetters.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    "You don't support any kind of torture. That is a nice, safe, easy statement with no actual meaning. But you do have the luxury of making statements that have no actual meaning."
    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The same can be applied to supporters of torture and murder of detainees. They continue to insist that such atrocities result in actionable intelligence but have thus far been unable to cite a specific and detailed example. Hollow statements from morally bankrupt people.
    What makes you think that the bars should be actionable intelligence? Atrocities? Like flying airplanes into buildings? Like killing stewardesses with box cutters? Those atrocities?

    We made a few people uncomfortable. If you haven't the stomach for war I will understand. But at least you should be thanking the people involved who kept you safe.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    That's ok, most of us Dems think the Cons are the traitorous lot that hates America.
    Yes. I know. But we are not the ones who committed treason by giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    yes. if we maintain a state of perpetual war it will lead to more conflict, as it has for several decades now. if we continue participating, there will be another war even if IS is defeated. and it doesn't matter who we torture; the result will be the same.

    the US has to get out of the pro bono global police business and instead concentrate on rebuilding our own country.
    Do you realize that you make no sense?

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    What makes you think that the bars should be actionable intelligence? Atrocities? Like flying airplanes into buildings? Like killing stewardesses with box cutters? Those atrocities?
    Like snatching innocent civilians off the street to be repurposed as human punching bags. Like torturing and falsely imprisoning people for years on end. Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    We made a few people uncomfortable.
    Uncomfortable is probably the understatement of the year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If you haven't the stomach for war I will understand. But at least you should be thanking the people involved who kept you safe.
    Kept me safe? Thats a laugh. If they want to keep me safe then they can come to Columbus and widen 270 by a few lanes. Maybe take out Hilltop while they're at it. Milling around Afghanistan and anally raping people you've bought from a shady Pakistani bounty hunter doesn't keep me safe let alone from something less likely to happen to me than being struck by lightning while holding a winning lotto ticket.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but that's how Dershowitz wrote it. Any attempt to avoid the dilemma is a declaration of failure.
    Maybe Dershowitz should make it more personal so they do get it.
    Like maybe that of a kidnapper and the imminent death of their child.

    Regardless of the dishonesty in responses, if they were faced with such circumstances they know they would approve of it.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Do you realize that you make no sense?
    to those invested in missing the point? yes, that is not a surprise.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    They may well be honorable men, but there was nothing honorable about what they were doing. Call it a necessary evil if you must, but to call what they were doing honorable is to render the word meaningless.
    That's your view and you're entitled to it. I consider the fact that after 9/11 President Bush did all within his power to protect the American people from further harm and succeeded in doing so without further incident to be entirely honorable. The man was truly struck by the loses on that day and the devastation brought to so many families and I'm sure he never wished to experience that again, at least not on his watch. I consider it far more honorable than leaving four American patriots to die in Benghazi and then the President and the Secretary of State being unable to look a grieving mother in the face and answer her questions about why. But we all have our own personal views on the character, integrity, decency and honour of people we see acting and reacting in public.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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