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Thread: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Easy to tear to shreds. One of the most egregious examples there is the claim that a terrorist plot was foiled in 2002 because they tortured a man in 2003. Oopsy.

    You seem confused.
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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Easy to tear to shreds. One of the most egregious examples there is the claim that a terrorist plot was foiled in 2002 because they tortured a man in 2003. Oopsy.

    There is no such narrative.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    There is no such narrative.
    Of course there is; its what the author of the article you posted refers to as the "second wave" plot, more commonly known as the Library Tower plot. The narrative by torture apologists goes that waterboarding Sheikh Mohammed 183 times yielded some or all of the intelligence needed to prevent it. What the author of this article, like all of the other apologists, neglects to mention is the fact that this plot was foiled in 2002 and Sheik Mohammed wasn't even captured until 2003. These people have been lying all along in the hope that the truth would be forever buried under censor blocks so they can never be fact checked. They can't count on that anymore.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Did Dianne Feinstein torture anyone?
    Accountability is treasonous.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    And yet it was a Democrat, the traitorous Dianne Feinstein, who did this damage to this nation at this time.
    Again, the damage was done in the actions. This is only a bunch of words on a page (well, many pages actually) describing the actions.

    You may chose to hate/shoot the messenger, but its misguided anger. If the underlying objectionable actions never happened, then Dianne Feinstein's pen (figuratively speaking) would have NO clout.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Of course there is; its what the author of the article you posted refers to as the "second wave" plot, more commonly known as the Library Tower plot. The narrative by torture apologists goes that waterboarding Sheikh Mohammed 183 times yielded some or all of the intelligence needed to prevent it. What the author of this article, like all of the other apologists, neglects to mention is the fact that this plot was foiled in 2002 and Sheik Mohammed wasn't even captured until 2003. These people have been lying all along in the hope that the truth would be forever buried under censor blocks so they can never be fact checked. They can't count on that anymore.
    The 2002 arrest disrupted but did not eliminate the threat. That's the problem with disruptions: they only buy time. Detainee information was critical in subsequent successful elimination of the threat. That's why GWB did not speak of it until years later.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The 2002 arrest disrupted but did not eliminate the threat. That's the problem with disruptions: they only buy time. Detainee information was critical in subsequent successful elimination of the threat. That's why GWB did not speak of it until years later.
    An interesting but untrue narrative. When GWB and Frances Townsend announced in 2007 that the threat had been eliminated they stated that it had been eliminated in 2002. Capturing and torturing Sheikh Mohammed a year later had nothing to do with it. The CIA's own internal documents reveal that they didn't get anything of value out of him except for an alleged confession that he was the one who beheaded Daniel Pearl and even that couldn't be verified.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-10-14 at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    An interesting but untrue narrative. When GWB and Frances Townsend announced in 2007 that the threat had been eliminated they stated that it had been eliminated in 2002. Capturing and torturing Sheikh Mohammed a year later had nothing to do with it. The CIA's own internal documents reveal that they didn't get anything of value out of him except for an alleged confession that he was the one who beheaded Daniel Pearl and even that couldn't be verified.
    Sorry, but you have it wrong, just like the Senate. The immediate threat was stopped in 2002 but the countermeasures continued. GWB was accurate in discussing what had been the immediate threat, but it is unreasonable to expect the POTUS would have tracked the very complex and wide ranging operations thereafter. The timing of his statement, however, indicates how long those follow ups lasted.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but you have it wrong, just like the Senate. The immediate threat was stopped in 2002 but the countermeasures continued. GWB was accurate in discussing what had been the immediate threat, but it is unreasonable to expect the POTUS would have tracked the very complex and wide ranging operations thereafter. The timing of his statement, however, indicates how long those follow ups lasted.
    LOL. What next? You going to claim that the counter-terrorism czar Frances Townsend didn't know what she was talking about either?
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-10-14 at 11:38 PM.

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    Re: John McCain CIA Torture Report Senate Speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    LOL. What next? You going to claim that the counter-terrorism czar Frances Townsend didn't know what she was talking about either?
    She was never in the operational chain of command. She would have had no reason to be involved in, or even have knowledge of, operational activities. Moreover, the important thing from her perspective (and GWB's) was the 2002 disruption.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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