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Thread: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after federa

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    He's not being prosecuted by anyone in the US. He's being sued by a Ugandan LGBT group for damages on the basis of the Alien Tort Statute, which allows non-citizens to seek in US courts reparations for human-rights violations committed against them. The text:

    28 U.S. Code § 1350 - Alien’s action for tort
    The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of any civil action by an alien for a tort only, committed in violation of the law of nations or a treaty of the United States.
    Well, unless someone can come up with a law or something he violated, I am totally against the law suit. I dont know about the ruling of the Federal appeals court though; it seems they said something similar to "they cant rule using the reason the plantiff provided."

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Actually he preached against more than just gay marriage:

    For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”
    I can agree with you in this regard. I also agree with you that do not appear to have violated any law. What apears to have happened is:

    - 3 US citizens (their socio political views are not really material), gave a series of "juiced up, fired up" presentations in another nation during which the activities of a rival socio political group were exaggerated.

    - The US citizens did not call for violence, they were not volunteer fighters, and they had no ability to actually harm anyone in that nation.

    -After the locals got juiced up, they passed a series of harsh laws, and some private citizens of that nation actually did harm gays. Meanwhile the US citizens distanced themselves (too a degree) from the laws and tried, though only to a degree, to soften the imapct of their "fired up" speeches.

    - The US citizens then get sued by members of the harmed community for violating their human rights.... .

    The Ugandans who were harmed need to sue the Ugandans who actually harmed them. Likewise, the liability of the US citizens should be restricted to cases where the US citizens actually called for violence.

    In short one can be an inflammatory Christian, Muslim or secularist, who rails for or against religion, but unless one calls for violence, or perhaps in situations where it can be definively proven that they knew that their "fired up" speeches would lead to violence, it is just free speech.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 12-09-14 at 10:23 AM.

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    "Pro Family" Groups from the US are almost exclusively responsible for whats happened in Uganda.

    Again they couldn't win in the US, so they exported their hatred to a poor East African nation with a largely uneducated population that would easily lap up their message.

    Says alot about them.

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I can agree with you in this regard. I also agree with you that do not appear to have violated any law. What apears to have happened is:

    - 3 US citizens (their socio political views are not really material), gave a series of "juiced up, fired up" presentations in another nation during which the activities of a rival socio political group were exaggerated.

    - The US citizens did not call for violence, they were not volunteer fighters, and they had no ability to actually harm anyone in that nation.

    -After the locals got juiced up, they passed a series of harsh laws, and some private citizens of that nation actually did harm gays. Meanwhile the US citizens distanced themselves (too a degree) from the laws and tried, though only to a degree, to soften the imapct of their "fired up" speeches.

    - The US citizens then get sued by members of the harmed community for violating their human rights.... .

    The Ugandans who were harmed need to sue the Ugandans who actually harmed them. Likewise, the liability of the US citizens should be restricted to cases where the US citizens actually called for violence.

    In short one can be an inflammatory Christian, Muslim or secularist, who rails for or against religion, but unless one calls for violence, or perhaps in situations where it can be definively proven that they knew that their "fired up" speeches would lead to violence, it is just free speech.
    Can you define "called to violence?" Do you literally have to say "hurt them?"
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Educator Uncensored2008's Avatar
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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after federal court denies his petition to dismiss lawsuit | masslive.com



    Not sure how I feel about this one, as far as I can tell he had no direct involvement. Also what about Ugandan officials?
    I guess the democrats have succeeded in repealing the 1st Amendment.

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    From the OP's link "Springfield resident violated U.S. law by trying to influence the laws of a foreign country."

    I assume, and hope, that all attempts to influence the laws of a foreign country are not illegal. Otherwise pro-gay rights and other international human rights movements based in the USA would be illegal. Lively is despicable, but unless he explicitly and strongly urged the use of violence or other serious human rights violations by citizens and/or the government I don't think he should be convicted. He claims that he advocated imposing mandatory therapy on gays, not the death penalty, and that he would not support the law if it includes a death penalty (isn't he nice?) If Lively is telling the truth I don't think he deserves conviction.
    The issue is that it is illegal to hold and promote ideas which are contrary to those permitted by our ruling elite. Lively is an enemy of the party, therefore will be punished.

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Actually he preached against more than just gay marriage:

    For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/wo...anda.html?_r=0
    Remember the old days, when Americans were free to think and speak any idea they wished?

    Well, we're Obamunists now, that nasty 1st amendment is a thing of the past. Views contrary to party canon will be severely punished.

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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Good points. This whole proceeding is a farce that cheapens the definition of "Crimes against humanity". There is no evidence what so ever that the accused either directly, or indirectly called for violence. In addition, there is no evidence that those who actually harmed gays were motivated by the accused to harm them.

    In short, what this man is "guilty" of is being stridently against gay marriage- a PC thought crime against humanity.
    Where did you get that information? The evidence has not even been presented in a case as of yet. How can you make those determinate claims?

    The ruling was on whether the case could be dismissed because the district court did not have jurisdiction to hear the case. The court over-ruled that defense contention.


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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    I guess the democrats have succeeded in repealing the 1st Amendment.
    The democrats of Uganda? This case is being brought by an alien entity in US District court using US Law.

    On March 14, 2012, the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) filed a federal lawsuit on behalf of Sexual Minorities Uganda (SMUG), a non-profit umbrella organization for LGBTI advocacy groups in Uganda, against Abiding Truth Ministries President Scott Lively, a U.S.-based attorney, author, and self-described world-leading expert on the “gay movement.” Filed in the United States District Court in Springfield, Massachusetts, the suit alleges that Lively’s involvement in anti-gay efforts in Uganda, including his active participation in the conspiracy to strip away fundamental rights from LGBTI persons, constitutes persecution.

    This is the first known Alien Tort Statute (ATS) case seeking accountability for persecution on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.
    The United States Supreme Court has affirmed the use of the ATS as a remedy for serious violations of international law norms that are widely accepted and clearly defined. Persecution is defined in international law as the "intentional and severe deprivation of fundamental rights contrary to international law by reason of the identity of the group or collectivity."


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    Re: Anti-gay activist Scott Lively's crimes-against-humanity case to proceed after fe

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Can you define "called to violence?" Do you literally have to say "hurt them?"
    Call to violence would mean just that: The speaker is commanding or encouraging his listeners to use violence. One can also use euphamisms such as "special treatment" when calling for violence.

    Any definitions short of that lead to a very slippery slope of: No, you did not call for violence, but I dont like your speech. Furthermore, someone might have been partially influenced by your speech to actually commit violent acts.

    The only exception to the above definition that I could see would be where it could be definitively shown that he knew that his speech would be taken as a call for violence:
    - "Hey, everytime you have made these speeches, people have been attacked shortly afterwards, please not give anymore under these circumstances". or

    - "I am a Ugandan police officer, please dont give the speech against the "X' people now- there is an aggitated lynch mob outside this buidling looking for excuses to harm "X" people."
    Last edited by Cryptic; 12-09-14 at 12:43 PM.

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