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Emails Show “Pro-Family” Activists Feeding Contacts To Russian Nationalists

apdst said:
No one told you what to believe, so don't tell others what to believe.
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People have told me what to believe, and I rejected some ideas and accepted others. That's part of life, we tell our truth and that's okay. Digs belief in his God informs his views and that's okay that he says that. It's also okay for me to tell him that his faith is wrong and that his god doesn't exist. That is me sharing what I believe.
 
Your Star said:
People have told me what to believe, and I rejected some ideas and accepted others. That's part of life, we tell our truth and that's okay. Digs belief in his God informs his views and that's okay that he says that. It's also okay for me to tell him that his faith is wrong and that his god doesn't exist. That is me sharing what I believe.
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Did Digbse? Or did he tell you what he believes?
 
APACHERAT said:
Look at geopolitics as a chess game because that's how it's played.
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And let me guess who's playing checkers ... you've only used THAT line a hundred times.

Not sure why you have such a boner for Putin. I guess far-right authoritarians are your cup of tea.
 
Kobie said:
And let me guess who's playing checkers ... you've only used THAT line a hundred times.

Not sure why you have such a boner for Putin. I guess far-right authoritarians are your cup of tea.
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With all of Obama's foreign policies failures, Obama will be spending the next two years playing 52 card pickup. :lamo
 
Your Star said:
The god you believe in isn't real, so who gives a **** what the Bible says? The Bible shouldn't have an impact on our morals or values.
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And how do you know that? The Bible is the moral standard set forth by God. The Bible should guide all moral values as we live by the Holy Spirit.

Your Star said:
That is not a pro-family position. The pro-family position is that all families are important and all families matter. That it does not matter if it is a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man, raising their biological or adopted children. All families are important and they all matter. That is the pro-family message.

This message that one man and one woman is the only acceptable family unit is nothing but pure anti-family garbage.
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All families are important, but the truth remains that God's plan for marriage and family is men and women raising children and raising them according to His truth. Anything else misses the mark as far as being the "best." Sure any other couple can raise a kid that grows up to be successful and doesn't commit crime, but if they aren't raised according to God's principals then it's not what is best for them. God has a plan for sex, marriage and how the family is supposed to work. People are free to believe what they want or do what they want and homosexuals should be allowed to adopt, but that doesn't mean their union is valid in God's eyes or even optimal as far as being the best form of parenting. That's just the solid truth of the matter.
Hatuey said:
It's double speak. The same kind that brings us "pro-life" and "pro-abortion". There is no such thing as "pro-life" or "pro-abortion". There are only "pro-choice" and "anti-choice". Either you're in favor of women having reproductive choice, or you're not. Nobody is favor of having abortions used in all pregnancies or 'pro-life' when keeping the baby results in the mother's death. However, there are a few people who insist that these labels are accurate for the positions they represent. That's nonsense. They're not. They're meant to emotionally charge the issue and digsbe has demonstrated that in spades. He has ignored every study which contradicts his statement about what is best in favor of his own subjective morality. If that doesn't tell you how flawed the positions of pro-family advocates are, I don't know what will.
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I didn't ignore it, in fact I've said given data homosexuals and others can raise children just fine. However, due to spiritual truths it's not the best compared to a one man one woman relationship with God as the head :shrug:

I don't know how I can be any more clear on that. But you can continue to ignore spiritual truths, call things nonsense that you either don't understand or refuse to attempt to understand. And people can be pro-life, the whole position is that the unborn have a right to life, it's a stance that human life should be protected and not killed electively. Saying "pro-choice" and "anti-choice" is fundamentally ignorant of the pro-life position and a common close minded rhetoric trick many use to delegitimize a position, similar to saying pro-choice people are "anti-life" or "baby killers."
 
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You've GOT to be joking. On this forum it is generally LIBERALS who have supported Putin's Nationalism and expansionism. Most conservatives have suggested instead kicking Putin's ass.
 
APACHERAT said:
With all of Obama's foreign policies failures, Obama will be spending the next two years playing 52 card pickup. :lamo
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APACHERAT, How's the ruble doing? How is Russia's economy doing lately? ;)
 
digsbe said:
I didn't ignore it, in fact I've said given data homosexuals and others can raise children just fine. However, due to spiritual truths it's not the best compared to a one man one woman relationship with God as the head :shrug:
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And I've already explained to you that subjective standards for what constitute best don't matter. What matters is quantifiable and qualitative data. As such, children raised in the homes of gays show no difference and as a matter of fact have been proven to benefit from their upbringing. :shrug: So no, your position that "christians heterosexual homes are best" are proven by two facts A) data showing otherwise and B) your lack of studies demonstrating otherwise. ;) Please show us your Family Research Council studies so we can laugh a little?

I don't know how I can be any more clear on that. But you can continue to ignore spiritual truths, call things nonsense that you either don't understand or refuse to attempt to understand. And people can be pro-life, the whole position is that the unborn have a right to life, it's a stance that human life should be protected and not killed electively. Saying "pro-choice" and "anti-choice" is fundamentally ignorant of the pro-life position and a common close minded rhetoric trick many use to delegitimize a position, similar to saying pro-choice people are "anti-life" or "baby killers."
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More doublespeak? I've explained to you. No such thing as a pro-life position anymore than there is a pro-abortion position. :shrug:
 
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The second people start talking about "God's plan," I head for the hills. "God's plan" sounds pretty lousy from the things that have been done as part of said "plan" for the last few thousand years of human history.
 
Hatuey said:
And I've already explained to you that subjective standards for what constitute best don't matter. What matters is quantifiable and qualitative data. As such, children raised in the homes of gays show no difference and as a matter of fact have been proven to benefit from their upbringing. :shrug:
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Yes, it does matter and that should be taken into consideration. I've not once said homosexuals or anyone else shouldn't be allowed to adopt or have kids. What I am saying though is the non-subjective, absolute standard that the best home environment is one that follows God's plan for marriage and family is superior to that of others due to a proper spiritual aspect. Being pro-family in the strictest sense of the definition would be pushing for such things. I don't know how I can make that any more clear. You can change laws, but you don't get to change the absolute truths of what God says, that's beyond human authority or judgement.

More doublespeak? I've explained to you. No such thing as a pro-life position anymore than there is a pro-abortion position. :shrug:
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Seems like you're not getting the concept. Pro-life = the unborn have human rights, the opposition to abortion is on the premise that the unborn have a right to life. Call it doublespeak or try to puff up your own argument with whatever adjectives or attacks you want, but intellectually at the end of the day the pro-life position is based on life and not this concept of "anti-choice." If you want to go down that route one could claim being pro-choice is "anti-life" in the sense that it advocates for the right to kill human life on a whim
 
digsbe said:
Because buzzfeed is a reliable and unbiased source...

What ultimately matters is the message, and the pro-family message of one man one woman raising children together in a loving home beats all others.
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Yep, we all love that Scott Desjarlais family value stuff: One man, one woman, one mistress, one ex-wife and couple of abortions... you know, the essentials for a happy, well adjusted family. Oh yes, I forgot the picket fence.

STLouis PD2.jpg
Republican Picket Fence


I am all for family values: I actually practice them (married to one woman for 30 years, no affairs, two kids). But, aside from the statement, I don't otherwise go about bragging on it, nor run for office trying to sell myself as some type of holier than though puritan. I think "family values" are important, but if your going to advocate them, then live by them (and call others out when they brag on it and do live it). Stop with this obvious hypocrisy, Republicans. Just ask:

David Vetter
Vance McAllister
Mark Sanford
Newt Gingrich
Herman Cain
Ted Haggerty

.... off the top of my head

https://www.tumblr.com/search/pro-family+republicans
 
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digsbe said:
Yes, it does matter and that should be taken into consideration.
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No. It doesn't. Religious upbringing has never been taken into consideration for whether children perform well or not. That you're still trying to claim it without a single study backing you up is downright silly.

I've not once said homosexuals or anyone else shouldn't be allowed to adopt or have kids.
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Relying on fictional strawmen arguments nobody has made? Ballsy, but see through.

What I am saying though is the non-subjective, absolute standard that the best home environment is one that follows God's plan for marriage and family is superior to that of others due to a proper spiritual aspect. Being pro-family in the strictest sense of the definition would be pushing for such things. I don't know how I can make that any more clear. You can change laws, but you don't get to change the absolute truths of what God says, that's beyond human authority or judgement.
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You can keep repeating this lie as much as you want. Your belief that children are raised better in a Christian heterosexual home is just that. Your belief. It's not an objective (that's the word you're looking for) observation that is up for scrutiny. It's your opinion and it is contrary to the facts demonstrating otherwise. :shrug:

Seems like you're not getting the concept. Pro-life = the unborn have human rights, the opposition to abortion is on the premise that the unborn have a right to life. Call it doublespeak or try to puff up your own argument with whatever adjectives or attacks you want, but intellectually at the end of the day the pro-life position is based on life and not this concept of "anti-choice." If you want to go down that route one could claim being pro-choice is "anti-life" in the sense that it advocates for the right to kill human life on a whim
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Still trying to emotionally charge the issue? Pro-life doesn't exist. Your human rights don't get to infringe on mine, neither can they be determined to be more important than mine. Rights don't work that way and yet that's how fundies want to dishonestly present it. Did you forget that's the reason you disappear from threads when you engage in this silly practice of looking at the human rights you do and don't like? Remember reproductive rights are a human right and they precedence long before those of a cluster of cells.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Emails Show “Pro-Family” Activists Feeding Contacts To Russian Nationalists

Hey "pro-family"(whatever that means) movement, at least you got far right wingers like Putinites on your side and extreme right wing nationalists... Wohoooo :roll:[/FONT]
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Why would anybody be surprised that the right wing in the US has close ties with Putinistas? Putin is just the kind of leader these right wing zealots admire. And they sure love his stand on homosexuals. A marriage made in heaven.
 
upsideguy said:
Yep, we all love that Scott Desjarlais family value stuff: One man, one woman, one mistress, one ex-wife and couple of abortions... you know, the essentials for a happy, well adjusted family. Oh yes, I forgot the picket fence.


I am all for family values: I actually practice them (married to one woman for 30 years, no affairs, two kids). But, aside from the statement, I don't otherwise go about bragging on it, nor run for office trying to sell myself as some type of holier than though purtain. I think "family values" are great, but there is far too much hypocrisy around this. Just ask:

David Vetter
Vance McAllister
Mark Sanford
Newt Gingrich
Herman Cain
Ted Haggerty

.... off the top of my head

https://www.tumblr.com/search/pro-family+republicans
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You can't define truth or family values based on the moral failings or mistakes of others. It's a logical fallacy to say someone else's view is invalid because they had a personal failing. It's not about being holier than though, it's about standing up for what's right and encouraging Godly family values when many oppose them. Some people run on rhetoric or to manipulate votes out of other's and aren't sincere in their message, just look at many health and wealth TV preachers. Others mean it but they fell into sin just like everyone else whereas others still live by those principals and didn't break them.
 
digsbe said:
Because buzzfeed is a reliable and unbiased source...

What ultimately matters is the message, and the pro-family message of one man one woman raising children together in a loving home beats all others.
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Yeah, and that Putin really knows how to handle gays, doesn't he? :lamo
 
Hatuey said:
APACHERAT, How's the ruble doing? How is Russia's economy doing lately? ;)
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I'm more concerned why there hasn't been a full recovery of our economy after almost six years under the Obama administration and everyone forgets that the "Feds" have been propping up Obama's economy since day one ? Whats going to happen when the "Feds" stop propping up Wall Street ?

I'm pretty sure that the "Feds" will stop propping up America's economy around early 2017.

As for the Russian ruble. Not good for the civilized Western world when the Russian ruble is weak. The weapon of choice by the bad guys in the world are the Russian AK's and 7.62X39 mm ammunition. I weak Russian ruble means the bad guys can buy more AK's and ammunition for less money. It's how it works in the geopolitical game.

Pay close attention to OPEC and especially Saudi Arbabia. They been playing both sides, always have going back to the 1970's.
 
Kobie said:
And let me guess who's playing checkers ... you've only used THAT line a hundred times.

Not sure why you have such a boner for Putin. I guess far-right authoritarians are your cup of tea.
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the far right has had a boner for Putin for some time now. Maybe it's those manly pictures of him without his shirt on that sets their hearts all aflutter. They love them some Putin, and make no mistake about it.
 
joko104 said:
You've GOT to be joking. On this forum it is generally LIBERALS who have supported Putin's Nationalism and expansionism. Most conservatives have suggested instead kicking Putin's ass.
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No, they haven't. the Far Right has themselves a massive man-crush on Vlad.
 
digsbe said:
You can't define truth or family values based on the moral failings or mistakes of others. It's a logical fallacy to say someone else's view is invalid because they had a personal failing. It's not about being holier than though, it's about standing up for what's right and encouraging Godly family values when many oppose them. Some people run on rhetoric or to manipulate votes out of other's and aren't sincere in their message, just look at many health and wealth TV preachers. Others mean it but they fell into sin just like everyone else whereas others still live by those principals and didn't break them.
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I appreciate the fact that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. But, politicians the run on righteousness need to be called out when they fall short of that righteousness. The Republicans are more than happy to sell family values, but less than happy to actually live them. The politicians that fall short rightfully deserve disgrace and ridicule.

If you are going to sell family values, then you best live the family values or don't peddle them, in the first place. Live by the sword; die by the sword (unless, of course, you have a wide-stance).
 
APACHERAT said:
I'm more concerned why there hasn't been a full recovery of our economy after almost six years under the Obama administration and everyone forgets that the "Feds" have been propping up Obama's economy since day one ? Whats going to happen when the "Feds" stop propping up Wall Street ?
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321K jobs added ... Dow Jones almost at 18K...

I'm pretty sure that the "Feds" will stop propping up America's economy around early 2017.

As for the Russian ruble. Not good for the civilized Western world when the Russian ruble is weak. The weapon of choice by the bad guys in the world are the Russian AK's and 7.62X39 mm ammunition. I weak Russian ruble means the bad guys can buy more AK's and ammunition for less money. It's how it works in the geopolitical game.

Pay close attention to OPEC and especially Saudi Arbabia. They been playing both sides, always have going back to the 1970's.
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It's almost like you make it up as you go. The Russian ruble going down would only make the AK47 a more attractive choice if it wasn't produced in about... oh I don't know.... the 20 other countries that have made its value drop for decades. Secondly, you shucked and jived so much I almost forgot you didn't answer my question. Putin is so good at his geopolitical game that he's managed to cripple the Russian economy, cut the rubles value by half, and made investors flee from the country. That's the geopolitics game Obama should be afraid of? Get serious.
 
Hatuey said:
No. It doesn't. Religious upbringing has never been taken into consideration for whether children perform well or not. That you're still trying to claim it without a single study backing you up is downright silly.
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You're completely missing the point. My claim isn't based on studies (that no one has really conducted) looking at religious vs. non-religious families and upbringing. My claim is based on the Bible which is the word of God.
Relying on fictional strawmen arguments nobody has made? Ballsy, but see through.
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Just stop, I'm not going to respond again to your ignorant claims that I somehow support or have said that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to adopt or raise kids. For the 3rd or 4th time (I've lost count) I'll restate that with the above sentence, and that's the last time. If you want to continue pushing that I'm somehow advocating that gays, lesbians, secular or any other type of family unit shouldn't raise kids then you're just misrepresenting my view because it's convenient for you to do so with petty attacks.

You can keep repeating this lie as much as you want. Your belief that children are raised better in a Christian heterosexual home is just that. Your belief. It's not an objective (that's the word you're looking for) observation that is up for scrutiny. It's your opinion and it is contrary to the facts demonstrating otherwise. :shrug:
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Nah, it's not a lie and it's what the word of God says. It's based on the fact that God commands that parents raise their kids in accordance with his word and instruct them. You might not believe that, no one is forcing you to believe that, but just as people can not believe in gravity they're still wrong in that belief although entitled to it.

Still trying to emotionally charge the issue? Pro-life doesn't exist. Your human rights don't get to infringe on mine, neither can they be determined to be more important than mine. Rights don't work that way and yet that's how fundies want to dishonestly present it. Did you forget that's the reason you disappear from threads when you engage in this silly practice of looking at the human rights you do and don't like? Remember reproductive rights are a human right and they precedence long before those of a cluster of cells.
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You're the one that made the initial claim that there is no "pro-life" position, I merely refuted your illogical way of misrepresenting an issue to fit your ideology. I disappear from threads usually because I get busy or because people that refuse to debate rationally and just continue on with their arrogant misrepresentations aren't worth dealing with anymore :shurg: But let's not make things personal.

Right now abortion is a reproductive right, just like slave ownership was a right before the lives of slaves were recognized. The law doesn't dictate right and wrong and it doesn't make the pro-life argument illegitimate anymore than the anti-slavery argument was legitimate during times when slavery was legal. Heck, if law determines right and wrong then one can concede to the logical fallacy that up until court decision on gay marriage that gays simply didn't have the right to wed because the law didn't recognize it (and in some states still doesn't). Sometimes you have to push for what is right, challenge past laws and make changes. Humans make errors, rights can be given in error and in some cases throughout history humanity needed to correct itself just like with the reversal of slavery or the denial of gays to wed and in the case of wrongfully allowing people to kill the unborn for elective, non-medically necessary reasons because the law doesn't value that life. You can continue to make accusations of straw mans, bash faith, ignore the concept of spiritual truth or just discuss me as a person or poster but if that's where the debate is headed I'm just going to stop. I've said my peace already.
 
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digsbe said:
And how do you know that? The Bible is the moral standard set forth by God. The Bible should guide all moral values as we live by the Holy Spirit.
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How do you know that?


The Bible is a book written by bronze aged men, with immorality filling the pages. That book should in no way be a guide to any moral values. It is the antithesis of morality.
 
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