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Fake veteran called out by actual soldier may face federal charges

Crosscheck said:
I wore the uniform from 1970 to 1974 and was never spat on or called a baby killer. That doesn't mean it never happened but I don't believe it was that wide spread.
I think the number who were spat on probably equals the number of military members now days who get free houses and free cars.

You seem to have a ax to grind about our current military members for some reason. Yes, in some ways they may have things better than us who served during the Vietnam era as I am certain I had it better than those who served in WW1.
So what?
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So because you never saw anybody get spat on, that means it didn't happen? I'm sure that you must be right. My husband, who served from 1967 to 1992, must be lying. :roll:

I have no ax to grind, other than the fact that Vietnam vets were treated like ****, and today's vets are not, even though they were all involved in wars that we shouldn't have been involved in.
 
apdst said:
Ockam was cordial enough to explain what he meant. I expect that from, but not so much from other folks. ;-)
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So... I needed to explain myself when I said a 17 year old Old Navy clerk wouldn't understand that a military ID was a part of the uniform? You need it spelled out that much for you?

I'll speak more slowly, so even you can understand.

A...... 17....... year....... old........ would...... not...... understand...... that........ a...... military....... ID........ card....... is..... part....... of........ a........ military....... uniform.

Better?
 
Northern Light said:
Kind of makes me think about the level of privilege soldiers have in our culture's iconography, and how impersonating that is some kind of sacrilege.

We shouldn't venerate all soldiers. Some people use the military to get through college, and they get nice cushy jobs in the military -- no self-sacrifice required. I don't really view those people with the same level of esteem as someone who fought in a war zone and saw their friends die. But they seem to receive a sort of carte blanche kind of pride, regardless of what they did.

People shouldn't impersonate someone in the military, anymore than they should impersonate a cop or someone in government. On the other hand, I don't think upper class people who get high ranks in the military and basically do nothing should get my respect either.
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I have great level respect for all who take the oath and serve honorably. Combat arms or not. There is a level of risk no matter how cushy a job you may think some soldiers have. An active soldier knows that he or she could be sent anywhere at anytime if all hell breaks loose. One of my co-workers was a Marine reservist. There was no war going on when he enlisted. However he ended up doing two tours in Iraq. On the second one, he got his left arm blown off. One of the reasons he joined was to put himself through college. Ofcourse those who serve in combat need and should get more healthcare and disability benefits. However we should not be putting down those who serve in a support role away from the battlefield.
 
I agree with almost all of your sentiments expressed here, except one:

Northern Light said:
Some people use the military to get through college, and they get nice cushy jobs in the military -- no self-sacrifice required. I don't really view those people with the same level of esteem as someone who fought in a war zone and saw their friends die. But they seem to receive a sort of carte blanche kind of pride, regardless of what they did.
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What is a "cushy job"? And how does someone go about getting it? Do these jobs not have to attend basic training? Is there such a thing as a military job that will *never* deploy? (There isn't.)

As a veteran, I get annoyed when people thank me for my service. I literally didn't do it for them. I'll take a free appetizer at Applebee's once a year, whatever. But to intone there is such a thing as "an easy job" in any branch of the military, that is simply false. There are tough jobs, and there are really tough jobs, but the service itself can be soul crushing.

I was an aviator. I heard (and caused) a lot of death on a radio. But it did it "over there," and just being away from home for six or nine months, stuck in a room or an airplane with people you may really love or really hate, without a day off from them or from work, and then an abrupt transition back to home life... that's tough on anyone, whether you're kicking in doors or pushing paper in the finance office. Nobody shot at me, but the fear of death followed me up in the sky every single day for months at a time. And to some, I had a "cushy job".
 
Superfly said:
So... I needed to explain myself when I said a 17 year old Old Navy clerk wouldn't understand that a military ID was a part of the uniform? You need it spelled out that much for you?

I'll speak more slowly, so even you can understand.

A...... 17....... year....... old........ would...... not...... understand...... that........ a...... military....... ID........ card....... is..... part....... of........ a........ military....... uniform.

Better?
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Thats not what Ockam postrd.
 
I don't think this should be a federal offense unless the ruse was used in a way to garner federal benefits. If they are otherwise using the ruse to gain financial benefit or other decietful gains, I'm sure there are laws for things such as that at lower levels, or at the very least it should be a federal offense. If it's just some douche dressed as a soldier...well I mean, can we really punish that? It's a free country after all.
 
This thread put me in the mood to look up some other incidences. Check this one out where some Marines call out a fake Army Sergeant Major. I wish they had had some Soldiers with them because some of the items wrong on his uniform are hilariously wrong. The brass SGM rank on the beret and the infantry officer branch insignia on the lapel (even though he says he is also a military police) were the first to catch my eyes.

 
Superfly said:
So because you never saw anybody get spat on, that means it didn't happen? I'm sure that you must be right. My husband, who served from 1967 to 1992, must be lying. :roll:

I have no ax to grind, other than the fact that Vietnam vets were treated like ****, and today's vets are not, even though they were all involved in wars that we shouldn't have been involved in.
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Learn to read first, here is my comment
Crosscheck said:
I wore the uniform from 1970 to 1974 and was never spat on or called a baby killer. That doesn't mean it never happened but I don't believe it was that wide spread. I think the number who were spat on probably equals the number of military members now days who get free houses and free cars.
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You were the one to have this naive comment
Superfly said:
People coming back today are thrown parades, given free houses, free cars, and made out to be heroes, even if they never left the motor pool or the mess hall.
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Show me the freaking link service people are given free houses and cars. Heck , we have military families on food stamps now days.
 
Northern Light said:
Kind of makes me think about the level of privilege soldiers have in our culture's iconography, and how impersonating that is some kind of sacrilege.

We shouldn't venerate all soldiers. Some people use the military to get through college, and they get nice cushy jobs in the military -- no self-sacrifice required. I don't really view those people with the same level of esteem as someone who fought in a war zone and saw their friends die. But they seem to receive a sort of carte blanche kind of pride, regardless of what they did.

People shouldn't impersonate someone in the military, anymore than they should impersonate a cop or someone in government. On the other hand, I don't think upper class people who get high ranks in the military and basically do nothing should get my respect either.
Click to expand...

I think the only way you could ever understand why they are given this kind of treatment, is to actually be in the military. You are asked to do a lot of things while being paid terribly to do them. I don't think the general populace understand what the average military member goes thru. Constant moves, constant time away from family in dangerous areas of the world.. giving up all your rights to keep your job.. you cant speak out, you cant protest, you cant be openly a part of any political or social movement. You really give up a lot of rights as a military member. How else are you going to convince people to swallow such a pill if they are not at least given social rewards... They are definatly not rewarded montitarily for this sacrifice.
 
Crosscheck said:
You were the one to have this naive comment Show me the freaking link service people are given free houses and cars.
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Wounded soldier gets new mortgage-free home, donated by Built to Honor program | abc13.com

Wounded Soldier Gets Fresh Start, Free New Home - 8 News NOW

Wounded soldier gets free home

Deserving soldier gets surprise with new home - KCTV5

Soldier Gets Surprise Of A Lifetime With H-E-B Smart Home | Texas Public Radio

Injured soldier gets free house in Galt through new program for vets | The Sacramento Bee

Injured soldier to get free Hendersonville home

Need I go on?

Let me make it easy for you.

Operation FINALLY HOME | Official Site

This ^^ is one of the bigger places, but there are places all over the country that do this.

Heck , we have military families on food stamps now days.
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And? Soldiers were on food stamps when my husband was in the military, too.
 
Superfly said:
Wounded soldier gets new mortgage-free home, donated by Built to Honor program | abc13.com

Wounded Soldier Gets Fresh Start, Free New Home - 8 News NOW

Wounded soldier gets free home

Deserving soldier gets surprise with new home - KCTV5

Soldier Gets Surprise Of A Lifetime With H-E-B Smart Home | Texas Public Radio

Injured soldier gets free house in Galt through new program for vets | The Sacramento Bee

Injured soldier to get free Hendersonville home

Need I go on?

Let me make it easy for you.

Operation FINALLY HOME | Official Site

This ^^ is one of the bigger places, but there are places all over the country that do this.



And? Soldiers were on food stamps when my husband was in the military, too.
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Okay you have listed some injured warriors who by public donations were given homes and I am all for that. But your initial tone was that all the troops now days were coming home to rose petal parades with keys to a new car and home.
Superfly said:
People coming back today are thrown parades, given free houses, free cars, and made out to be heroes, even if they never left the motor pool or the mess hall.
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Click to expand...

I just detect too much bitterness and envy in you. Those of us during the Vietnam era did not get the royal welcome like those of WWII or recent battles, but I didn't join for a parade. I am just happy most people today are proud of our soldiers and do show their appreciation. Why not?
 
Crosscheck said:
Okay you have listed some injured warriors who by public donations were given homes and I am all for that. But your initial tone was that all the troops now days were coming home to rose petal parades with keys to a new car and home.
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I never said "all" the troops, but granted, the troops are treated much better now than they were then. If you can't see that, nothing I say is going to change that. :shrug:

I just detect too much bitterness and envy in you. Those of us during the Vietnam era did not get the royal welcome like those of WWII or recent battles, but I didn't join for a parade. I am just happy most people today are proud of our soldiers and do show their appreciation. Why not?
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I really don't care what you detect in me, quite frankly. My husband didn't join for a parade, either, but he sure as hell didn't join to be treated poorly upon return.

Good for you that you are proud of our soldiers today, but you, if you did serve in Vietnam, are a rarity. My husband spends a lot of time with other Vietnam Vets, and spends time at the VA hospitals, etc - since he retired in 1992. After he retired, he drove the DAV van for many years. He was hard pressed to find Vietnam Vets who didn't feel the same way he did.

I am not bitter, or envious. Nor is he, nor is the other vets that he talked to regularly. They just don't understand the difference in the two. Why are *these* soldiers treated differently from *those* soldiers?
 
Oh my god!!!! Some fat guy went out and bought some clearly fake military uniform and is parading around a mall eatery with it!!!! What a disaster and outrage!!!!


........................................


We're doomed.




SO what honestly? I'm all for respecting the military and I do but at the same time, let's be real. People are only in the military on average a handful of years then they either go civilian and work for the military somehow or leave it entirely. A few years of service where you're being PAID to do a JOB doesn't warrant lifetime respect. It warrants "Oh you served in the military a long ass time ago, cool, good for you".
 
Superfly said:
I never said "all" the troops, but granted, the troops are treated much better now than they were then. If you can't see that, nothing I say is going to change that. :shrug:
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Beg your pardon but can you please show me where I wrote you said "all" the troops?

No, I wrote
But your initial tone was that all the troops now days were coming home to rose petal parades with keys to a new car and home.
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And here is your initial tone, you be the judge:
Superfly said:
People coming back today are thrown parades, given free houses, free cars, and made out to be heroes, even if they never left the motor pool or the mess hall.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Capster78 said:
I think the only way you could ever understand why they are given this kind of treatment, is to actually be in the military. You are asked to do a lot of things while being paid terribly to do them. I don't think the general populace understand what the average military member goes thru.
Click to expand...

I get this, I really do (and thanks for what you wrote). I've just been to a lot of different countries in my life and the way people view the military around the world varies. It ranges from pride, to neutral, to hostile, to they just come across as a joke (like in Brazil). America's culture of military is highly glorified and prideful. I don't think it's as simple as the social contract they engage in, it also has to do with our culture of violence and awarding those who carry it out.

Gonzo Rodeo said:
I agree with almost all of your sentiments expressed here, except one:

What is a "cushy job"? And how does someone go about getting it? Do these jobs not have to attend basic training? Is there such a thing as a military job that will *never* deploy? (There isn't.)

As a veteran, I get annoyed when people thank me for my service. I literally didn't do it for them. I'll take a free appetizer at Applebee's once a year, whatever. But to intone there is such a thing as "an easy job" in any branch of the military, that is simply false. There are tough jobs, and there are really tough jobs, but the service itself can be soul crushing.

I was an aviator. I heard (and caused) a lot of death on a radio. But it did it "over there," and just being away from home for six or nine months, stuck in a room or an airplane with people you may really love or really hate, without a day off from them or from work, and then an abrupt transition back to home life... that's tough on anyone, whether you're kicking in doors or pushing paper in the finance office. Nobody shot at me, but the fear of death followed me up in the sky every single day for months at a time. And to some, I had a "cushy job".
Click to expand...

I know that the entire military functions as one apparatus (or is supposed to), which is why every position is important. No debate there. What I'm talking about is self-sacrifice. Everyone in uniform gets praise because they did basic training and got a job. Some people just do the basic training, go to school in the military, fork over X number of work hours, and then quit and go to the private sector. No expenses.

My issue is with pride in general. I think it blinds our nation to its true virtues and weaknesses, and the military is no exception.

ObamacareFail said:
I have great level respect for all who take the oath and serve honorably. Combat arms or not. There is a level of risk no matter how cushy a job you may think some soldiers have. An active soldier knows that he or she could be sent anywhere at anytime if all hell breaks loose. One of my co-workers was a Marine reservist. There was no war going on when he enlisted. However he ended up doing two tours in Iraq. On the second one, he got his left arm blown off. One of the reasons he joined was to put himself through college.
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I'm not putting them down. Their work is their work, I've got no beef with it. My beef is with the culture of glorification and pride around the military. Same with NFL stars actually... why do we elevate these people to the status of worship?

Glen Contrarian said:
As a retired Navy man, I strongly agree that we've taken the almost-worship of military vets too far. Yes, those who are truly disabled - and especially those who are combat-wounded - should have some privileges...but not ALL veterans. After all, most retired military will agree that their service was more of a privilege than a soul-crushing burden.
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Totally agree! You're the first one to echo what I'm talking about. The worship is out of line. Some people really do deserve our standing ovation. I really respect people based on their individual stories, not for their organization as a whole. It's like saying we should respect everyone in government no matter who they are. Well no, nobody does that... we see what everyone's about and then decide.

apdst said:
And you have the right to treat us with the level of respect you choose.

We protected that right for you.
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My rights have not been in jeopardy my entire life.

Also, not really what I was talking about anyway. But no convo is complete without a little self-righteousness injected, am I right?
 
What's not right is trying to compare NFL players with those who serve in the military.
 
I think everyone is giving this way too much thought and energy. That fake is going to relive that moment forever in his life. He will never forget the embarrassment of it. So be it, move on.

As far as honoring the military, there is a middle of the road here. I spent 28 years in the Army. I don't expect "glorification". I got paid and earned some benefits for eating crap sammiches for 28 years. It isn't a 9 to 5 job. Some weeks I worked 80 hours and some I sat around and didn't work at all. There were more 80 hour weeks than sitting around. My family was affected by my service as much as I was. It is a sacrifice to be away from their family in a combat zone where it is hotter than 125 degrees for 18 months. It was a sacrifice to share a 11 foot by 14 foot room with another person, or in a tent for all of that time, rather than being at home enjoying the things that they enjoy about being at home. They don't ask for glorification or even a thanks for the most part. They expect to get what their country promised for their service and that isn't happening for most people that have served and were injured or disabled. We all didn't get a new car or house or motorcycle. That is a very few of the lucky ones.

I got hit with a bag of piss in the late 70s because I was wearing a uniform. If it happened because I was black there wold have been outrage and anger. I was white and wearing a uniform so I just had to shower, wash my clothes and deal with it. I just wish those cowards would have had the guts to stop and confront me rather than drive by and throw a bag of piss out the window. Oh well. It happened and I have a pretty thick skin. Far better men than me have endured much worse. I just wish they would have stopped so I could have put a real lesson in manners on their collective asses. My revenge is living a real good life here in the Colorado Mountains, drinking good whiskey and some of the best steak in the country. They are stuck with Susie Rottencrotch, five inbred kids, stuck in their miserable lives in Killeen, Texas and still voting for their welfare benefits.

All that said, all soldiers want mainly is what they earned. They have to fight with the VA to get any kind of coverage. Many of them die fighting the system for years trying to get the VA to recognize or admit that they deserve coverage because they were exposed to chemical agents in Iraq. It has taken the VA years to admit to that fact. May have died in those years. Money saved. So it is kind of ironic when I see people hollering about workers at Walmart and not raising hell about what that soldier is not getting that he earned. It is ironic that people will fight for the right of some dumb ass to attack a police officer and their surprise when that dumb ass dies. Most call that "Suicide by cop." The mentally and morally challenged call it "racist" for that officer to defend himself. I guess that proves that you can't fix stupid.
 
NonoBadDog said:
I think everyone is giving this way too much thought and energy. That fake is going to relive that moment forever in his life. He will never forget the embarrassment of it. So be it, move on.

As far as honoring the military, there is a middle of the road here. I spent 28 years in the Army. I don't expect "glorification". I got paid and earned some benefits for eating crap sammiches for 28 years. It isn't a 9 to 5 job. Some weeks I worked 80 hours and some I sat around and didn't work at all. There were more 80 hour weeks than sitting around. My family was affected by my service as much as I was. It is a sacrifice to be away from their family in a combat zone where it is hotter than 125 degrees for 18 months. It was a sacrifice to share a 11 foot by 14 foot room with another person, or in a tent for all of that time, rather than being at home enjoying the things that they enjoy about being at home. They don't ask for glorification or even a thanks for the most part. They expect to get what their country promised for their service and that isn't happening for most people that have served and were injured or disabled. We all didn't get a new car or house or motorcycle. That is a very few of the lucky ones.

I got hit with a bag of piss in the late 70s because I was wearing a uniform. If it happened because I was black there wold have been outrage and anger. I was white and wearing a uniform so I just had to shower, wash my clothes and deal with it. I just wish those cowards would have had the guts to stop and confront me rather than drive by and throw a bag of piss out the window. Oh well. It happened and I have a pretty thick skin. Far better men than me have endured much worse. I just wish they would have stopped so I could have put a real lesson in manners on their collective asses. My revenge is living a real good life here in the Colorado Mountains, drinking good whiskey and some of the best steak in the country. They are stuck with Susie Rottencrotch, five inbred kids, stuck in their miserable lives in Killeen, Texas and still voting for their welfare benefits.

All that said, all soldiers want mainly is what they earned. They have to fight with the VA to get any kind of coverage. Many of them die fighting the system for years trying to get the VA to recognize or admit that they deserve coverage because they were exposed to chemical agents in Iraq. It has taken the VA years to admit to that fact. May have died in those years. Money saved. So it is kind of ironic when I see people hollering about workers at Walmart and not raising hell about what that soldier is not getting that he earned. It is ironic that people will fight for the right of some dumb ass to attack a police officer and their surprise when that dumb ass dies. Most call that "Suicide by cop." The mentally and morally challenged call it "racist" for that officer to defend himself. I guess that proves that you can't fix stupid.
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Great post.

Am amazed how many guys try to fake being ex-military and mainly ex-SEALs. I do enjoy watching former Navy SEAL Don Shipley who is set up with access to the data of every Navy SEAL expose these fakes.
Shipley is great in calling these guys up and watching all their acts just fall apart. Shipley is on YouTube if you ever want some entertainment.
 
Northern Light said:
I get this, I really do (and thanks for what you wrote). I've just been to a lot of different countries in my life and the way people view the military around the world varies. It ranges from pride, to neutral, to hostile, to they just come across as a joke (like in Brazil). America's culture of military is highly glorified and prideful. I don't think it's as simple as the social contract they engage in, it also has to do with our culture of violence and awarding those who carry it out.



I know that the entire military functions as one apparatus (or is supposed to), which is why every position is important. No debate there. What I'm talking about is self-sacrifice. Everyone in uniform gets praise because they did basic training and got a job. Some people just do the basic training, go to school in the military, fork over X number of work hours, and then quit and go to the private sector. No expenses.

My issue is with pride in general. I think it blinds our nation to its true virtues and weaknesses, and the military is no exception.



I'm not putting them down. Their work is their work, I've got no beef with it. My beef is with the culture of glorification and pride around the military. Same with NFL stars actually... why do we elevate these people to the status of worship?



Totally agree! You're the first one to echo what I'm talking about. The worship is out of line. Some people really do deserve our standing ovation. I really respect people based on their individual stories, not for their organization as a whole. It's like saying we should respect everyone in government no matter who they are. Well no, nobody does that... we see what everyone's about and then decide.



My rights have not been in jeopardy my entire life.

Also, not really what I was talking about anyway. But no convo is complete without a little self-righteousness injected, am I right?
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Your rights haven't been in jeopardy, because the finest fighting force in history has maintained that level of security for you. You're welcome.
 
apdst said:
Your rights haven't been in jeopardy, because the finest fighting force in history has maintained that level of security for you. You're welcome.
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This is the attitude he's talking about. People have gotten themselves into this state where anything short of falling on our knees in worship of OUR TROOPS is some heinous insult. And anything even related to the military becomes sacrosanct. When people criticize America's involvement in Afghanistan or Iraq, people like you start labeling them as hating OUR TROOPS.

You really want to thank our military personnel? How about you convince those Republican representatives of yours to actually expend enough resources to support our growing list of veterans.

"You're welcome." Get over yourself.
 
Northern Light said:
I get this, I really do (and thanks for what you wrote). I've just been to a lot of different countries in my life and the way people view the military around the world varies. It ranges from pride, to neutral, to hostile, to they just come across as a joke (like in Brazil). America's culture of military is highly glorified and prideful. I don't think it's as simple as the social contract they engage in, it also has to do with our culture of violence and awarding those who carry it out.



I know that the entire military functions as one apparatus (or is supposed to), which is why every position is important. No debate there. What I'm talking about is self-sacrifice. Everyone in uniform gets praise because they did basic training and got a job. Some people just do the basic training, go to school in the military, fork over X number of work hours, and then quit and go to the private sector. No expenses.

My issue is with pride in general. I think it blinds our nation to its true virtues and weaknesses, and the military is no exception.



I'm not putting them down. Their work is their work, I've got no beef with it. My beef is with the culture of glorification and pride around the military. Same with NFL stars actually... why do we elevate these people to the status of worship?
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I do not see a culture of glorification. It's basically just a case of recognition and thanks for serving their country. There are millions of vets still around from wars going all the way back to WW2. They sacrificed more in a few years then most citizens do in a lifetime. I do not see them elevated to the status of worship....just respect and gratitude.
 
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