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Thread: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Well apparently in both Berkeley CA, Detroit MI and a whole plethora of police departments, those policies and procedures include "shoot first, ask questions later" resulting in an staggering number of civilian deaths that are -- according to the WSJ -- not even accurately being recorded at the FBI.
    First, Berkeley not so much, surrounding areas like Oakland, yes. And it's not a staggering number. Again, the only reason the FBI gathers those stats are for use by politicians when they want to preen and posture. There is no other use for them. Now I could see a practical use for the justice department to gather local stats in case a department develops a streak. But no need to aggregate the stats.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Interestingly enough I took a fair number of stats courses in my time at universities. There is one absolute truism that any good stats prof will remind you of: "there are three types of liars, liars, damn liars and statistics".

    That call to authority you do not possess aside, the systems are local, not federal.
    The systems are pseudo local, but behave similarly and demonstrate the same set of failures. That's a systematic breakdown, not local. That means that nationally there is a problem.

    You should ask for a refund from those University stats classes, obviously they didn't take.
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    From the OP...


    The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that the FBI, for whatever reason, is not getting all the data. It also raises the question of why the FBI is responsible for collecting and maintaining this data in the first place?
    Because... it's part of the FBI's job?

    FBI -- Uniform Crime Reporting

    They collect national crime statistics; it's a routine part of their job. Every nation has an interest, if not a duty, to collect this kind of data, and there is nothing unconstitutional about it.

    In addition, it is often the job of the FBI to investigate civil rights abuses, corruption and/or abuse by police departments. Collecting data helps with this task.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The systems are pseudo local, but behave similarly and demonstrate the same set of failures. That's a systematic breakdown, not local. That means that nationally there is a problem.

    You should ask for a refund from those University stats classes, obviously they didn't take.
    Yeah, right, and there are rapist nuns on the loose in Chicago. You'd understand that reference if you ever had actually taken a stats course.

    And no, they are not "pseudo local", NOT in any federal sense. Perhaps in the sense that each state makes law and sometimes mandates policy for the local departments.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I'd bet they're classified as something else.
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    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The CDC is federal, police are not. So the FBI data gathering has a bug. It's just data used for politics and showing off. The locals track this in their jurisdictions where the data is used for something useful.
    It shouldn't be news that federal agencies keep shoddy statistics. The OP makes it sound like these shootings aren't documented at all, which is obviously false.
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    That's for all police in the state of Wisconsin. We've just recently passed a bill to create independent reviews of police-caused homicides. Sparked by, yes, a police office killing a 21-year old Kenosha son in front of his mother and sister and getting away with it.



    In investigating police shootings, Wisconsin changed the game - or did it? | Al Jazeera America


    Yes, the police commission rulings have been overturned. In fact with this new law, we're seeing the first time the police taking responsibility for their actions:



    An estimated 16% of departments had some type of college requirement, including 9% with a 2-year degree requirement.

    Most = 16% ? http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd07.pdf
    1) but is that a change in the standard of evidence? Is a copy guilty until proven innocent?

    2) Good luck getting on without a degree or veteran's preference. Most cities would rather higher degrees. I don't know if city governments can say "you can't apply without a degree." Fair treatment.
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Because... it's part of the FBI's job?

    FBI -- Uniform Crime Reporting

    They collect national crime statistics; it's a routine part of their job. Every nation has an interest, if not a duty, to collect this kind of data, and there is nothing unconstitutional about it.

    In addition, it is often the job of the FBI to investigate civil rights abuses, corruption and/or abuse by police departments. Collecting data helps with this task.
    I never said it wasn't necessary and I never implied that there was anything unconstitutional about it. Sheesh.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think we need better statistcs in this, but we certainly need to improve society so that less people are killed.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So basically Obama and Holder are just talking out their asses about cases like Brown and Martin being endemic of racism in American justice; because they don't even have the data to prove it.
    The main problem in the present cases is the obvious loss of legitimacy the legal system has had. A society cannot be maintained without legitimacy. So we had better get to work on fixing it.

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