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Thread: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

  1. #31
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Yeah, in my home state of Wisconsin, in the 129 years since police and fire commissions were created, there hasn't been a SINGLE ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified. Can you believe that? In the entire history of Wisconsin as a state, never has there ever been a police reviewing committee that has found that a cop acted in a irresponsible or irrational manner when killing another person.

    Goes to show how sensible it is to arm high school dropouts with a gun and a badge. Makes for pretty justified cop shootings.
    That's for State police. What about Sheriffs and local police?

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    Yeah, in my home state of Wisconsin, in the 129 years since police and fire commissions were created, there hasn't been a SINGLE ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified. Can you believe that? In the entire history of Wisconsin as a state, never has there ever been a police reviewing committee that has found that a cop acted in a irresponsible or irrational manner when killing another person.

    Goes to show how sensible it is to arm high school drops with a gun and a badge. Makes for pretty justified cop shootings.
    3 Issues win this:

    1) Should we change the standard of evidence for an officer involved shooting? Should it be guilty until proven innocent?

    2) Can any of the officer involved shootings be proven to be unjust?

    3) The standards for Law Enforcement now in most places require a college degree. Not high school drop outs.
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    It's not a national "our", it's a local "our" and you'd know if you were aware of what was happening in your community. Again, police are local.
    It is a national "our" as our militarized police seem to act similarly on a national level. A nueron is local, but understanding the brain isn't localized to a nueron. Individual pricincts are local, but the overall structure runs on a hive mentality. Them vs. us. The Police vs. the People. Thus this becomes national concern.

    Cops in the US kill far more than any other country. America imprisons more people per capita than any other nation on Earth. These are national concerns.
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It is a national "our" as our militarized police seem to act similarly on a national level. A nueron is local, but understanding the brain isn't localized to a nueron. Individual pricincts are local, but the overall structure runs on a hive mentality. Them vs. us. The Police vs. the People. Thus this becomes national concern.

    Cops in the US kill far more than any other country. America imprisons more people per capita than any other nation on Earth. These are national concerns.
    No, it's just more fodder for folks that don't seem to understand that there are state, local and federal governments. You lose focus with your community, where the real action is. And no, you are absolutely wrong with the hive mentality bull****. Local departments have policies and procedures that suit their locality. What works for policing in Berkeley CA will not cut it in Detroit MI.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Okay, so where is the OP trying to go with this?
    As far as I can tell he is patiently attempting to educate the ignorant and enlighten those with constrained or non existant mental capacity. The difficulties of his task are significant because of the barrier of mental deficiency. I would guess he doesn't see all the cop killings within the voluminous data sources maintained by those who represent integrity and is perplexed that the relevant data does not support the integrity of said representatives. My own suspicion is that, like all government, they lie to us with obfuscation and distortion. I'm lucky because I live rural and the cops see their most direct need as social baby sitters and domestic problem solvers and are a real credit to their communities and their own selves.
    They are an exception.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's for State police. What about Sheriffs and local police?
    That's for all police in the state of Wisconsin. We've just recently passed a bill to create independent reviews of police-caused homicides. Sparked by, yes, a police office killing a 21-year old Kenosha son in front of his mother and sister and getting away with it.

    In April, Wisconsin became the first state to require that fatal shootings by police be investigated by at least two investigators outside of the agency that employs the officer in question.

    In 129 years, no police officer in the state had been found by a review panel to be at fault for killing anyone*, and advocates who fought for the law believed more officers would be brought to justice if they weren’t judged by their own.

    Clarification added Sept. 23: An earlier version of this article incorrectly stated that no officer had been found at fault for killing someone.
    In investigating police shootings, Wisconsin changed the game - or did it? | Al Jazeera America

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    3 Issues win this: 1) Should we change the standard of evidence for an officer involved shooting? Should it be guilty until proven innocent?
    2) Can any of the officer involved shootings be proven to be unjust?
    Yes, the police commission rulings have been overturned. In fact with this new law, we're seeing the first time the police taking responsibility for their actions:

    The Milwaukee police officer who fatally shot Dontre Hamilton at Red Arrow Park has been fired because he did not follow department procedures for dealing with emotionally disturbed people, Chief Edward Flynn announced Wednesday. The officer, Christopher Manney, did not use excessive force when he shot Hamilton 14 times, Flynn said; rather, the officer did not follow department rules in the moments leading up to the shooting.

    ...

    Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm has given no time frame regarding when he plans to make a decision about criminal charges against Manney. Milwaukee officer in fatal Red Arrow Park shooting fired
    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    3) The standards for Law Enforcement now in most places require a college degree. Not high school drop outs.
    An estimated 16% of departments had some type of college requirement, including 9% with a 2-year degree requirement.

    Most = 16% ? http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/lpd07.pdf
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it's just more fodder for folks that don't seem to understand that there are state, local and federal governments. You lose focus with your community, where the real action is. And no, you are absolutely wrong with the hive mentality bull****. Local departments have policies and procedures that suit their locality. What works for policing in Berkeley CA will not cut it in Detroit MI.
    When it becomes a systematic problem instead of local (as this is), then there is a problem with the system itself.

    Called statistics, you may want to study up on it.
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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    When it becomes a systematic problem instead of local (as this is), then there is a problem with the system itself.

    Called statistics, you may want to study up on it.
    Interestingly enough I took a fair number of stats courses in my time at universities. There is one absolute truism that any good stats prof will remind you of: "there are three types of liars, liars, damn liars and statistics".

    That call to authority you do not possess aside, the systems are local, not federal.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    That's for all police in the state of Wisconsin. We've just recently passed a bill to create independent reviews of police-caused homicides. Sparked by, yes, a police office killing a 21-year old Kenosha son in front of his mother and sister and getting away with it.



    In investigating police shootings, Wisconsin changed the game - or did it? | Al Jazeera America
    Cool, thanks.

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    Re: Hundreds of Police Killings Are Uncounted in Federal Stats

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it's just more fodder for folks that don't seem to understand that there are state, local and federal governments. You lose focus with your community, where the real action is. And no, you are absolutely wrong with the hive mentality bull****. Local departments have policies and procedures that suit their locality. What works for policing in Berkeley CA will not cut it in Detroit MI.
    Well apparently in both Berkeley CA, Detroit MI and a whole plethora of police departments, those policies and procedures include "shoot first, ask questions later" resulting in an staggering number of civilian deaths that are -- according to the WSJ -- not even accurately being recorded at the FBI.

    Which, yes, really aggravates me.
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