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Thread: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We should annex Mexico, Americanize the whole place and add another 10, or 12 states to the union.
    Then the problem with the U.S./Mexican border will just be moved south to the Mexican/Central American border.

    You'd better annex all of Central and parts of South America.

  2. #42
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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Really ??? And who would be doing these jobs if they weren't being done by illegal immigrants ?? I'll give you a hint, American citizens, legal ones.
    If you say so. Unless Americans don't want those jobs.

    Why Americans Won't Do Dirty Jobs - Businessweek
    North Carolina needed 6,500 farm workers. Only 7 Americans stuck it out. - The Washington Post
    Jobs Americans won't do: A myth, but a close approximation to the truth.

    And let's get back on point here. How much damage is actually done to the US economy by undocumented immigration? And if we provide a legal route to residency, does that problem get worse?

    An estimated 8 million undocumented immigrants work in the US. Most of the jobs the undocumented immigrants take are low-paying, low-skill jobs. They send some out of the US as remittances, and the rest circulates in the US.

    If we claim that "all those jobs would be filled even if the labor costs are higher," well, we should keep in mind that's a winner of an argument for raising the minimum wage, yes? If the demand for jobs is completely unaffected by wages, then by all means we should raise wages.

    Contrary to popular belief, those immigrants can't actually receive government services. Their children, if born in the US, are legitimate citizens and can receive certain benefits and an education. So, that's a wash.

    We should also note there are numerous other threats to American workers, many of which we do not try to thwart with legislation, and do far more harm to workers than undocumented immigrants, such as:
    • Automation
    • Outsourcing manufacturing
    • Free trade agreements
    • Increasing productivity (which means we need fewer people to produce the same output)
    • Eviscerating unions

    Does providing undocumented immigrants a route to legal residency increase these supposed problems? Nope. They're here, and hoping you can drive all of them away with a quick legislative fix is a fantasy. If we legitimize their presence, then we can zing them for taxes and make them work at higher wages, which of course provides an incentive to hire 'Muricans as well as undocumented immigrants. (Assuming 'Muricans want those jobs... which it seems they don't.)

    Last but not least, ranting and raving is not the equivalent to actual statistical data, or even estimates, of the alleged harm. So, how bad is it really? And if it's really that awful, then why haven't we been in a state of permanent recession since 1988....?

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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Really ??? And who would be doing these jobs if they weren't being done by illegal immigrants ?? I'll give you a hint, American citizens, legal ones.
    It's cute that people think this.
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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    If you say so. Unless Americans don't want those jobs.

    And let's get back on point here. How much damage is actually done to the US economy by undocumented immigration? And if we provide a legal route to residency, does that problem get worse?

    An estimated 8 million undocumented immigrants work in the US. Most of the jobs the undocumented immigrants take are low-paying, low-skill jobs. They send some out of the US as remittances, and the rest circulates in the US.

    If we claim that "all those jobs would be filled even if the labor costs are higher," well, we should keep in mind that's a winner of an argument for raising the minimum wage, yes? If the demand for jobs is completely unaffected by wages, then by all means we should raise wages.
    No, Americans don't want the jobs at the pay rate that illegal immigrants will accept. Most Americans won't clean hotel toilets for $8/hour. For one thing, they can make almost as much on government welfare. Why should they work when they can stay at home and watch Jerry Springer.

    If there were no illegal immigrants, then the pay would have to be raised until enough people were willing to work for the wages offered. Illegal immigrants suppress pay and cost American citizens jobs.

    And no, that is not a "winner" of an argument for raising the minimum wage. Wages should be based on ability of the employee, worth of the employee to the business, and supply and demand of labor.

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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    No, Americans don't want the jobs at the pay rate that illegal immigrants will accept.
    Or, they don't want the jobs, period. Read the second article as an example.


    Most Americans won't clean hotel toilets for $8/hour. For one thing, they can make almost as much on government welfare. Why should they work when they can stay at home and watch Jerry Springer.
    In case you missed it: Millions of Americans do clean toilets and do other crappy jobs for $7.25 an hour. Go figure.


    If there were no illegal immigrants, then the pay would have to be raised until enough people were willing to work for the wages offered. Illegal immigrants suppress pay and cost American citizens jobs.
    Read the 2nd link. A lot of those jobs will go unfilled.


    And no, that is not a "winner" of an argument for raising the minimum wage. Wages should be based on ability of the employee, worth of the employee to the business, and supply and demand of labor.
    Mmm. If that's the case, then why are you against immigrant workers at all? If wages are based on skill set, productivity, supply and demand, then why is there any problem at all with someone willing to work for lower wages? You should be saluting the immigrants' work ethic.

    I.e. you're failing to understand the consequences of your own claims. You say that immigrants are underpricing the market, while your ideology says that can't happen. You suggest that wages can go up, without any change whatsoever in the demand for those jobs, even though that overtly defies the economic theories you espouse. How is this supposed to work, exactly...?

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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    And again: Can you quantify the alleged harm done to the US by undocumented immigrants, or not?

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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yeah, the sky is indeed falling, isn't it?

    Funny thing is, the 'amnesty' you're decrying has stricter requirements than Reagan's. That, and no president has deported as many illegal aliens as has Obama.

    But I get it - he's worse than Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Vlad Tepes all combined, and he's out to destroy America because...Obama!
    He deported more as he let more in. Who do you think you're fooling?
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    Re: What Amnesty Has Already Done to America

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's cute that people think this.
    Well, they certainly do in my neck of the woods.

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