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Thread: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Finger

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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    See this is what's bizarre. Some of you are saying that a creator is inconsistent with evolution, some of you are saying it isn't. Which is it?

    Does believing evolution as fact preclude belief in a creator?
    Keep digging that hole, buddy. Tell us again how Dr. Edwin Conklin, whose work you seem to be so familiar with, was an evolutionist. I'll wait. Here, I'll help you out:

    http://etcweb.princeton.edu/CampusWW...win_grant.html

    A deeply religious man, Conklin was much concerned with the relations between science, ethics, and religion, a subject on which he wrote several books, published numerous magazine articles, and gave many speeches. Conklin believed that scientific evidence of man's animal ancestry need not undermine religious faith or belief in human dignity. ``The real dignity of man,'' he once wrote, ``consists not in his origin but in what he is and in what he may become.'' Perhaps the most conclusive statement of his point of view is found among the last words of his brief, posthumously published ``spiritual autobiography'': ``No one can furnish scientific proof of the existence or nature of a divine plan in the fulfillment of which men may cooperate, but it is evident that such an ideal lends strength and courage to mortal men.''
    Or did you realize you got caught talking out of the side of your mouth and now don't want to address it? The best part is that you actually thought nobody was going to look that 70 year old quote up.
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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Does believing evolution as fact preclude belief in a creator?
    Not necessarily, I want to draw an important distinction for many people who do not understand evolution, pro evolution or anti.

    Evolution does not attempt to answer the question of how the universe came to be.

    What it does explain is how the current bio-diversity came to be through changes in inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

    Does evolution preclude the idea that there could be a creator of some kind... not really.

    Does it put in doubt the biblical account of a creator... more so yes.

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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Not necessarily, I want to draw an important distinction for many people who do not understand evolution, pro evolution or anti.

    Evolution does not attempt to answer the question of how the universe came to be.

    What it does explain is how the current bio-diversity came to be through changes in inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.

    Does evolution preclude the idea that there could be a creator of some kind... not really.

    Does it put in doubt the biblical account of a creator... more so yes.
    And if I still believe the God of the Bible is the Creator, what would you say about my beliefs?
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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Keep digging that hole, buddy. Tell us again how Dr. Edwin Conklin, whose work you seem to be so familiar with, was an evolutionist. I'll wait. Here, I'll help you out:

    Conklin, Edwin Grant



    Or did you realize you got caught talking out of the side of your mouth and now don't want to address it? The best part is that you actually thought nobody was going to look that 70 year old quote up.
    Actually, isn't that quote saying pretty much what some of you are arguing in this thread, that evolution need not be inconsistent with a creator?

    Of course, earlier it was denied that he even said it. If you all could make up your mind, that's be great.
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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Actually, isn't that quote saying pretty much what some of you are arguing in this thread, that evolution need not be inconsistent with a creator?
    Doubling down on the dishonesty, I see. Conklin is not saying evolution need not be inconsistent with a creator. What he is saying is that evolution is highly unlikely. Which, considering his Christian beliefs, is not a shocking a position for him to take.

    Of course, earlier it was denied that he even said it. If you all could make up your mind, that's be great.
    Keep digging X Factor, I haven't even discussed evolution in this thread. I haven't even discussed what others have said on it. I discussed your quote and the pathetic lie you came up with in order to make yourself seem educated on this subject.

    Now tell us again: What relevance do the words of a Christian biologist from 70+ years ago, have on this discussion?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And if I still believe the God of the Bible is the Creator, what would you say about my beliefs?
    It depends on how those beliefs manifest themselves.

    Do I believe that evolution puts the story of creation in Genesis in massive doubt, absolutely.

    Does your belief in the god of Abraham force you to deny evolution which is clear and irrefutable fact?

    if the answer is yes to that question, then I don't know what to tell you.

    It's not gonna kill you, it's not gonna hurt you not to believe in evolution or doubt it's authenticity.

    But as a human being, as a curious, knowledge seeking human being, to deny evolution is to deny the universe around you, to deny the very reason why things exist as you see them and if there is a creator, it pushes you farther away from that deity should it exist.

    That's why we study physics, that's why we study biology, that's why we study chemistry, it's not to make someone feel bad about their beliefs, it's not to try to force you to believe something that isn't true, it's to get closer to understanding the universe and why it is the way it is.

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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    It depends on how those beliefs manifest themselves.

    Do I believe that evolution puts the story of creation in Genesis in massive doubt, absolutely.

    Does your belief in the god of Abraham force you to deny evolution which is clear and irrefutable fact?

    if the answer is yes to that question, then I don't know what to tell you.

    It's not gonna kill you, it's not gonna hurt you not to believe in evolution or doubt it's authenticity.

    But as a human being, as a curious, knowledge seeking human being, to deny evolution is to deny the universe around you, to deny the very reason why things exist as you see them and if there is a creator, it pushes you farther away from that deity should it exist.

    That's why we study physics, that's why we study biology, that's why we study chemistry, it's not to make someone feel bad about their beliefs, it's not to try to force you to believe something that isn't true, it's to get closer to understanding the universe and why it is the way it is.
    ... Well not in massive doubt... it debunks most of the creation story.

    - We know how stars are formed.
    - We know how planets are formed.
    - We have evidence of the creation story floating around in civilizations from the mediterranean long before the Hebrews got a hold of it.
    - We know the sheer genetic diversity in the animal kingdom would have made creating some animals borderline redundant
    - We know where human beings came from and we have established our genetic similarities with other species.

    Evolution is just one aspect of the puzzle. What people fail to realize is that there are a myriad of other disciplines which have - in a mostly uncoordinated fashion - cracked away at the foundations of books which make sweeping claims about the world's creation. What the religious can now rely on is basic allegory and some of the few parts of their books which are written down accurately. However that still leaves massive holes that can only be covered up through god of the gaps logic and revising the meaning of some events.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-02-14 at 11:33 AM.
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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I'm trying to think of someone I'd trust least to stand up for Christianity.* Please don't do us any favors. Most Christians do believe that God is the creator and you've just said it yourself, creationist = stupid.

    The thing is, if you think believing God is the creator is stupid, what other Christian beliefs must you believe stupid? Any problem with the virgin birth? All the miracles Jesus performed? Walking on water? Calming a storm? The Resurrection?

    How many times have I heard Jesus referred to as a zombie? To claim there is no atheist antagonism toward Christianity might be the funniest thing I've seen. I am curious about why you all just don't want to own it. Surely the thoughts and opinions of any believer can't matter to you.

    Edit: *ok, Hatuey's in the thread. There is someone I would trust less.
    Post one quote where someone said "there is no atheist antagonism toward Christianity" or just can it and leave the thread already. You've lied in pretty much every post you've made here. What would Jesus say about that?
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I'm trying to think of someone I'd trust least to stand up for Christianity.* Please don't do us any favors. Most Christians do believe that God is the creator and you've just said it yourself, creationist = stupid.

    The thing is, if you think believing God is the creator is stupid, what other Christian beliefs must you believe stupid? Any problem with the virgin birth? All the miracles Jesus performed? Walking on water? Calming a storm? The Resurrection?

    How many times have I heard Jesus referred to as a zombie? To claim there is no atheist antagonism toward Christianity might be the funniest thing I've seen. I am curious about why you all just don't want to own it. Surely the thoughts and opinions of any believer can't matter to you.

    Edit: *ok, Hatuey's in the thread. There is someone I would trust less.
    I am no longer religious, but I grew up Catholic and my wife and I were active members of a local Episcopal parish for years.

    The following denominations accept theistic evolution and are not literal creationists:

    Roman Catholicism
    Orthodox Christianity
    Anglicans (including Episcopalians)
    Methodists
    Presbyterians
    Most Lutheran Denominations
    Church of Christ
    Amercian Baptists
    Reformed Christians
    Congregationalists

    And several others.

    The only denominations that are creationists are:

    Most Southern Baptist Churches
    Missionary Baptists
    Primitive Baptists
    Most Independent Baptists

    The Evangelical Free Churches (non-denominational fundamentalist evangelicals)
    Some of the Nazarenes
    Pentacostals
    Assemby of God

    and various fundamentalist / charismatic groups.

    These groups all together don't even make up a third of worldwide Christendom.

    As to the notion that a there are atheists that are antagonistic to Christianity, sure, of course there are. However, that has nothing to do with modern science being incompatible with fundamentalist religious beliefs.
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    Re: Reporter Suspended For Defending Evolution Comes Back, Gives Immediate Middle Fin

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I don't agree with the one guy being suspended but what, exactly, made Schilling a moron for expressing his views on Twitter (other than that you disagree with him)?
    Expressing moron views does tend to out someone as being a moron.

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