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Thread: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians"

  1. #11
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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Rand Paul Reacts to Ferguson: Reform Criminal Justice System, Petty Fines - Hit & Run : Reason.com

    Can't say I'm a huge fan of Rand Paul, but he's right on the money here.
    I am a fan of Rand Paul, I generally agree with him, and mostly agree with him here...

    I do agree that the War on Drugs is an abject failure and at odds with individual liberty, but I do not think it has much to do with this case. I suppose it can broadly tie-in only through talking about the distrust and anger that would result in all of the madness surrounding the case, where people are willing to reject evidence and embrace the most ridiculous conspiracy theories.

    I do agree that fines for petty, victimless crimes are rampant and that local police departments around the country probably need more by way of tax dollars and less of these fines. Speed traps - changing the speed limit abruptly at the bottom of a hill, for example - come to mind immediately. I do not think that has much to do with this case.

    I do not agree with the general militarization of the police... however... it was clear on Monday night that there was not a strong enough police force to protect the rights of the residents, and more force was warranted to curtail arson, destruction, and looting. Of course, they had declared a state of emergency and called in the National Guard, so perhaps that failure is arguably a military one and it lies with the governor.

    I very much believe in the right to free speech and the right to freedom of assembly; "burn this bitch down" is not a matter of free speech, it is inciting a riot. Attacking the Ferguson Market & Liquor, again, and burning down AutoZone is not a form of protest worthy of any respect nor legal protection.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 11-26-14 at 11:34 AM.

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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Can't say I'm a huge fan of Rand Paul, but he's right on the money here.
    And who elects those politicians? The people.

    Now here is the real rub, those laws on the books need to also be enforced do they not? If they don't need to be enforced, they shouldn't be on the books.

    It's easy to blame the politicians, however, you cannot escape the fact that the people have put those politicians in the position where they have made these laws.

    You cannot blame the cops for enforcing laws that are on the books.

  3. #13
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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Someone is making an early bid for the White House...
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  4. #14
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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    I am a fan of Rand Paul, I generally agree with him, and mostly agree with him here...
    I am not a fan of Rand Paul. Not being a partisan hack, I am not a slave to party approved people and positions. I have the freedom to agree with statements made by any politician. I generally agree with everything Paul said in the OP.

    I do agree that the War on Drugs is an abject failure and at odds with individual liberty, but I do not think it has much to do with this case. I suppose it can broadly tie-in only through talking about the distrust and anger that would result in all of the madness surrounding the case, where people are willing to reject evidence and embrace the most ridiculous conspiracy theories.
    If Ferguson is like most of America a high percentage of black males have been arrested for pot. More have been arrested for drugs. In Ferguson most all those black males have been arrested by white cops. If Ferguson is like the rest of the country, the criminal justice system works differently for black males than it does while males. Black males are likely sentenced to jail more than white males and for longer sentences when comparable crimes are committed.

    I do agree that fines for petty, victimless crimes are rampant and that local police departments around the country probably need more by way of tax dollars and less of these fines. Speed traps - changing the speed limit abruptly at the bottom of a hill, for example - come to mind immediately. I do not think that has much to do with this case.
    Yes, and when 2 million bucks are collected from black residents by white cops and given to a white city government it is understandable that it likely causes resentment. Add to that historically across the nation minorities are stopped much more frequently than whites. In part, because of that, there are more vehicle searches and arrests for things like possession of pot. It is plausible then that there is a relationship between the two.

    I do not agree with the general militarization of the police... however... it was clear on Monday night that there was not a strong enough police force to protect the rights of the residents, and more force was warranted to curtail arson, destruction, and looting. Of course, they had declared a state of emergency and called in the National Guard, so perhaps that failure is arguably a military one and it lies with the governor.
    I have long held that there has been a militarization of police in America. We will have to agree to disagree.

    There should have been greater control on Monday night. Agreed. I question even the announcement being made a 8 PM. Under the cover of darkness much violence can occur - and did. I think it was bonehead decision to make the announcement at night.

    Obviously there wasn't enough law enforcement/national guard presence. Bear in mind that the national guard is not a police force and though sure some have had a couple of drills worth of riot training, except for military police units, few have police training. The national guard is a tool. They function as ordered. If they were deployed late, in numbers too small, deployed improperly fault rests higher up the chain of command.

    The after action reports which we will not see will determine how effective the national guard was or not and why or why not. As part of that report there will be a determination of how much worse the situation might have been without them. It could have been much worse had the guard not been there, we don't know.

    I very much believe in the right to free speech and the right to freedom of assembly; "burn this bitch down" is not a matter of free speech, it is inciting a riot. Attacking the Ferguson Market & Liquor, again, and burning down AutoZone is not a form of protest worthy of any respect nor legal protection.
    That comment is not germane to the OP.










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  5. #15
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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Anyone that dismisses Paul's chances in the presidential race is a fool. He is making a concerted effort to appeal to youth and minority voters and I believe he will succeed.
    I agree. I'm not a fan of the way he is framing this incident as some sort of tipping point in a false race war though. I will still vote for the guy unless another candidate sweeps me off my feet though.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Rand Paul Reacts to Ferguson: Reform Criminal Justice System, Petty Fines - Hit & Run : Reason.com

    Can't say I'm a huge fan of Rand Paul, but he's right on the money here.
    And on this stance of many libertarians, I 100% agree.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  7. #17
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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    This is a nice catch phrase,

    "...reform our criminal justice system.”

    But no one has yet to put forth any ideas.

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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Rand Paul doesn't have any thoughts on the grand jury's decision, according to the OP.
    Way to be a politician Rand .
    Last edited by NIMBY; 11-26-14 at 11:44 PM.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Ted Cruz will begin throwing bricks through Rand Paul's glass house sometime next year .

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I agree. I'm not a fan of the way he is framing this incident as some sort of tipping point in a false race war though. I will still vote for the guy unless another candidate sweeps me off my feet though.
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Rand Paul on Ferguson: "I blame politicians, criminal justice system."

    Rand Paul wants to demilitarize the police--again at odds with most of his own GOP.
    As he walks the high wire between primaries and the general election .
    Physics is Phun

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