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Illegal drunk drivers, sex abusers, drug dealers, gun offenders, no problem.

eohrnberger said:
Off they go with their mothers (parents), and are able to return when they can in fact take care of themselves.
If there is an adoption by another family member, they can stay here with those family members, but must be adopted.

Children belong with their parents or family members, especially when they need to be raised.
Their parents don't belong here, they have no legal right to be here.
It's by the bad decisions of their parents that these children were born here.
It's by the bad decision of their parents that put their children into this position.

I'm still not seeing the decision making difficulty here.

Simple, clear and orthogonal policies can clear this problem up rather nicely. Adding more confusion, ambiguity, court ruling, subjective measures, all add complications, cost, time, expense and I'm not seeing the commensurate benefit.

If we are unwilling to secure the border, to turn nearly every illegal alien attempting to cross the border back to where they came from; to be able to track down tourist or student visa over stayers; if Mexico is willing to send them over by the 100,000's each year, then we need to be able to send them back by the 100,000's each year, except we can't, because we've invented ourselves a process, dragging in the lawyers, the judges, the courts, expert witnesses that testify as to the lord only knows what, and it's all far too complicated to make the needed decisions in a speedy and judicious manner, so it drags out for years, and as it drags out, the illegal alien, released on their own recognizance, disappears into the woodwork, never to be found again (or at least a very low probability of being found again).

The mere fact that they do disappear into the woodwork sheds light as to why we are, once again (recall the Regan era), in this conflict of whom to amnesty and make legal, and whom not to amnesty and basically send back if we find them.

Simplify it. Make it consistent. Make it easy to enforce and easy to understand. Make the consequences clear and simple as well. You know. Real immigration reform. Not yet another same-o-same-o, or worse, something even more complicated and time consuming.

Why not adopt the same immigration policies that Mexico has, point by point? That'd be fair, right? We treat Mexican illegal aliens the same way that Mexico treats their illegal aliens.
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Don't they deport or jail immediately? Id even support the shoot on sight of known cartel people.
 
Of course, all self-respecting libertarians are praising the President's actions (as a first step) as they believe in open borders and freedom of movement. :cool:
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
You mean you want America to treat illiegals with the same level of tolerance and mercy that Mexico treated that American marine who crossed the border by accident.
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Well, that would be fair and equal, wouldn't it? The same treatment for the same situation?
 
clownboy said:
The Sally Struthers act is the sort of false empathy/sympathy that creates more problems than it solves. You're 22 and entitled to wear your heart on your sleeve and be uneducated about the world. You should however be educating yourself and learning at this point.

You have displayed a remarkable naiveté even for a 22 year old. Instead of asking why others aren't sympathetic like you are, you should be asking, why does everyone compare me to Sally Struthers?
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If the fact you are trying to drill into my skull is that all illegals should be deported regards of the circumstances, I don't think I can accept such a fact without being purged of all my life expierances.

You only care about the law and ignore the details.

My bottom line is this:not all illegals deserve deportation

Terrorists, bank-robbers, sexual predators, and actual criminals? They are the ones that deserve deportations.

But they are only a small percentage of the total illegal population.

Most of them are only guilty of trying to survive by any means necessary.

For many of them the choice is clear: to go back is unacceptable so that means they will do everything possible to stay where they are.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
How is making undocumented minors face deportation proceedings without legal representation any form of justice?
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Fund it from the coffers of the governments of the countries to which these kids belong.

Give them the bill, not U.S. always-resident citizen taxpayers.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
You contention is that deporting "Drunk drivers, sex abusers, drug dealers, gun offenders" is more important than deporting terrorists and felons?

Why shouldn't "misdemeanants" be in the #2 spot behind terrorists and felons?

Should "misdemeanants" be in the #1 spot or the #3 spot?

Or would you just lump all of the various groups together and call that "prioritizing"?
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If you had a daughter who was abused sexually by one, I would guarantee you that you wouldn't have made this comment of yours. just sayin....

I remember in the news a couple of years ago where a drunk driver who was an illegal and was in an accident killed the other driver... his third offense. Busted twice before and not deported....ended up killing an innocent.....

So...I'm not sure you or Barry should be making the priorities in these matters.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I don't understand what you see is wrong with this flexibility.

What would you prefer? That every illegal be deported no matter what?
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Yes, that is exactly what I would prefer except for a very few hardship cases where the illegals had no choice in the matter and have no 'home' elsewhere to return to. I would like for there to be a guest worker program in place that would allow those productive people with homes and businesses and jobs here and who are paying taxes to return to. But they need to get their affairs in order and leave and then come back through legal channels. The only 'amnesty' that should be involved is maybe a 180-day grace period that would allow them to do that. Those we want as citizens here would most likely be willing to do that. The rest, we will be far better off without.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What if they have family that are legal American citizens? If a mother is an illegal and is deported, what would happen to her children that are legal us citizens, especially if the kids are underage and cannot care for themselves?
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The kids go with her, just as the kids go with a parent who voluntarily leaves any country to live in another country, the kids go with her.

The plight of the kids in this case is no difference.

If the kids don't like it, their beef is with their parent.

The conditions causing the parent to leave the country, whether voluntary or forced, are caused by the parent.

The kids have no one to rightly blame but the parent.

So .. are you all bleed-heart for kids when their parent voluntarily chooses to move to another country?

It's no different here for the kids whether the parent chooses to go or must go.

For underage kids, citizenship doesn't matter. Parents trump.

For most of these kids, those that aren't citizens, it most certainly doesn't matter.
 
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Unitedwestand13 said:
Aren't there things that call for clemency or mercy?
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No.

You're blowing way out of proportion the situation with the kids.

Dial it down to reality.

If the parents chose to leave, you'd simply be silent.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Yes, that is exactly what I would prefer except for a very few hardship cases where the illegals had no choice in the matter and have no 'home' elsewhere to return to. I would like for there to be a guest worker program in place that would allow those productive people with homes and businesses and jobs here and who are paying taxes to return to. But they need to get their affairs in order and leave and then come back through legal channels. The only 'amnesty' that should be involved is maybe a 180-day grace period that would allow them to do that. Those we want as citizens here would most likely be willing to do that. The rest, we will be far better off without.
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And what if the "home" of some these illegals is so bad that the entire reason they came here was to save their life?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
And sending them back to a country like el salvidore or Honduras is essentially a death sentence.

There is no justice in that.
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Your first sentence is false, simply hyperbole.

If any of the children want to claim asylum, they may do so.

Then they will be placed into asylum, not roaming free in the populace.

Your second sentence is therefore simply meaningless.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I continue asking because I think the world has gone insane.

I don't know when you were born or what you experienced in life to make you think the way you do, but at some point you must have had some sense of empathy.

I am only 22 years old, but I read and watch enough to know what human suffering is

Call me naive but I care for other people if i see that they are suffering.

I don't understand what life expierences you must have faced in life to make you so unsympathetic to other people.
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Your beef is with the parents of these kids.

Our criminal justice system does not allow criminals to hide behind their children as a shield and demand immunity from conviction and sentencing.

If we did that, there'd be no justice for all.

The children's beef isn't with the American justice system .. it's with their parents.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
That is the level of mercy I would expect from ISIS.
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ISIS beheads people believing other than they do or want you to, or for political purposes.
We certainly aren't talking about that. We are not talking about beheading anyone.

Rather surprised that you've already exhausted your responses.
I admit, I'm coming at this with a little bit of devil's advocate perspective, but still. Maybe there's something to the simplification idea here.
 
radcen said:
This is where I lose my sympathy. Everybody's got a heart-wrenching story.
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And if we let people be excused from conviction and sentencing because they hide behind the shield of "I have kids -- you can't do this to me!", then everyone with a child could escape justice.

The beef these children have .. is with their parents, and no one else.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
And what if the "home" of some these illegals is so bad that the entire reason they came here was to save their life?
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That's NEVER the case. No matter which of the South American countries they are from, there is always a region they can move to in that country or another neighboring country where they are not in danger. All closer and easier to get to than the US. That reason goes under bull**** reasons to throw out there for bleeding heart suckers to snap up.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
If the fact you are trying to drill into my skull is that all illegals should be deported regards of the circumstances, I don't think I can accept such a fact without being purged of all my life expierances.

You only care about the law and ignore the details.

My bottom line is this:not all illegals deserve deportation

Terrorists, bank-robbers, sexual predators, and actual criminals? They are the ones that deserve deportations.

But they are only a small percentage of the total illegal population.

Most of them are only guilty of trying to survive by any means necessary.

For many of them the choice is clear: to go back is unacceptable so that means they will do everything possible to stay where they are.
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That's what you seem to be missing. The only thing I'm trying to "drill in your skull" is that you should educate yourself first before you make all these sweeping statements based solely upon your feelings. Your bottom line comes solely from a place of not knowing anything about the subject you're bottom lining.

Deporting them all regardless of circumstances is my educated opinion. We can discuss that when you have educated yourself. Until them, it's my opinion against your feeling.

That last for instance is not even close to true.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
No. But their idea of justice is devoid of mercy, similar to the view of those advocating for total deportation.
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Btw, if you had taken my advice and educated yourself by now you'd know a trial isn't involved. It's a hearing. If you don't know the difference, again, you know my advice.
 
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