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Illegal drunk drivers, sex abusers, drug dealers, gun offenders, no problem.

Unitedwestand13 said:
I don't understand what you see is wrong with this flexibility.

What would you prefer? That every illegal be deported no matter what?
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Not only yes, but HELL yes. I thought many have made that clear to you already. You've asked this question before.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Foreign Immigration is a federal responsibility.
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Perhaps, but we're not talking about immigration or immigrants here. We're talking about illegal aliens and they are a state and local problem as well.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What about illegal's who have family members that are u.s citizens, and these relatives hire lawyers to prevent a member of their family from being deported?
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Let them throw away whatever money or their own they wish to throw away.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Aren't there things that call for clemency or mercy?
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I don't know. At this point in time I sure as hell hope not. I am not interested in providing either.
 
clownboy said:
Not only yes, but HELL yes. I thought many have made that clear to you already. You've asked this question before.
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Because in my mind that sounds unreasonably harsh

To me that is like making the death penalty the only punishment for a crime, even for trivial ones like jay walking.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
If these undocumented children do not have legal representation, we would be denying them the chance of a fair trial.
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No trial necessary. They aren't "undocumented children", they are illegal aliens subject to deportation. No amount of lawyering or trial should affect that. These are children that are the responsibility of another country.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
How is making undocumented minors face deportation proceedings without legal representation any form of justice?
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By the very simple fact that they are here illegally. They are their host country's responsibility. In fact you are perverting justice for all of us by not deporting them.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Then don't expect anyone in the world to give you any clemency or mercy in return.
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I don't. No quarter expected, no quarter granted. **** the illegals.
 
clownboy said:
No trial necessary. They aren't "undocumented children", they are illegal aliens subject to deportation. No amount of lawyering or trial should affect that. These are children that are the responsibility of another country.
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And sending them back to a country like el salvidore or Honduras is essentially a death sentence.

There is no justice in that.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What if they have family that are legal American citizens? If a mother is an illegal and is deported, what would happen to her children that are legal us citizens, especially if the kids are underage and cannot care for themselves?
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Don't you get tired of asking the same questions expecting the answers to be different? That the definition of something, what is it again?

Look, if the child is a citizen by birth and the parents are deported, and no relatives who are citizens step forward, they are returned with their parents. They may apply for return to the US and citizenship here when they are 16.
 
clownboy said:
No trial necessary. They aren't "undocumented children", they are illegal aliens subject to deportation. No amount of lawyering or trial should affect that. These are children that are the responsibility of another country.
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Likely - yet which one? That is no small matter to figure out with a right to remain silent. ;)

Border security is important.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What if they are able to win the trial and get to stay?
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There should be no way for them to win the "trial". You are so full of questions about the immigration system and how it works here, why not educate yourself instead of mindlessly throwing spaghetti against the wall?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Because in my mind that sounds unreasonably harsh

To me that is like making the death penalty the only punishment for a crime, even for trivial ones like jay walking.
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Not even a good attempt at throwing spaghetti against the wall. Take a break and educate yourself.
 
clownboy said:
By the very simple fact that they are here illegally. They are their host country's responsibility. In fact you are perverting justice for all of us by not deporting them.
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Humanity is a responsibility that transcends national identity.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
And sending them back to a country like el salvidore or Honduras is essentially a death sentence.

There is no justice in that.
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Actually, yes there is. And your statement is just rank bull****. Locate El Salvador on the map. There are many countries between there and here, with many regions that are garden spots. Tourists visit just to see the beauty.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Humanity is a responsibility that transcends national identity.
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I'd expected such an uneducated response from someone whose arguments thus far display zero knowledge of the issue at discussion. You seem to only have some vague feelings about the issue and that is where your knowledgebase on the subject appears to end.
 
clownboy said:
Don't you get tired of asking the same questions expecting the answers to be different? That the definition of something, what is it again?

Look, if the child is a citizen by birth and the parents are deported, and no relatives who are citizens step forward, they are returned with their parents. They may apply for return to the US and citizenship here when they are 16.
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I continue asking because I think the world has gone insane.

I don't know when you were born or what you experienced in life to make you think the way you do, but at some point you must have had some sense of empathy.

I am only 22 years old, but I read and watch enough to know what human suffering is

Call me naive but I care for other people if i see that they are suffering.

I don't understand what life expierences you must have faced in life to make you so unsympathetic to other people.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
What if they have family that are legal American citizens? If a mother is an illegal and is deported, what would happen to her children that are legal us citizens, especially if the kids are underage and cannot care for themselves?
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Off they go with their mothers (parents), and are able to return when they can in fact take care of themselves.
If there is an adoption by another family member, they can stay here with those family members, but must be adopted.

Children belong with their parents or family members, especially when they need to be raised.
Their parents don't belong here, they have no legal right to be here.
It's by the bad decisions of their parents that these children were born here.
It's by the bad decision of their parents that put their children into this position.

I'm still not seeing the decision making difficulty here.

Simple, clear and orthogonal policies can clear this problem up rather nicely. Adding more confusion, ambiguity, court ruling, subjective measures, all add complications, cost, time, expense and I'm not seeing the commensurate benefit.

If we are unwilling to secure the border, to turn nearly every illegal alien attempting to cross the border back to where they came from; to be able to track down tourist or student visa over stayers; if Mexico is willing to send them over by the 100,000's each year, then we need to be able to send them back by the 100,000's each year, except we can't, because we've invented ourselves a process, dragging in the lawyers, the judges, the courts, expert witnesses that testify as to the lord only knows what, and it's all far too complicated to make the needed decisions in a speedy and judicious manner, so it drags out for years, and as it drags out, the illegal alien, released on their own recognizance, disappears into the woodwork, never to be found again (or at least a very low probability of being found again).

The mere fact that they do disappear into the woodwork sheds light as to why we are, once again (recall the Regan era), in this conflict of whom to amnesty and make legal, and whom not to amnesty and basically send back if we find them.

Simplify it. Make it consistent. Make it easy to enforce and easy to understand. Make the consequences clear and simple as well. You know. Real immigration reform. Not yet another same-o-same-o, or worse, something even more complicated and time consuming.

Why not adopt the same immigration policies that Mexico has, point by point? That'd be fair, right? We treat Mexican illegal aliens the same way that Mexico treats their illegal aliens.
 
eohrnberger said:
Off they go with their mothers (parents), and are able to return when they can in fact take care of themselves.
If there is an adoption by another family member, they can stay here with those family members, but must be adopted.

Children belong with their parents or family members, especially when they need to be raised.
Their parents don't belong here, they have no legal right to be here.
It's by the bad decisions of their parents that these children were born here.
It's by the bad decision of their parents that put their children into this position.

I'm still not seeing the decision making difficulty here.

Simple, clear and orthogonal policies can clear this problem up rather nicely. Adding more confusion, ambiguity, court ruling, subjective measures, all add complications, cost, time, expense and I'm not seeing the commensurate benefit.

If we are unwilling to secure the border, to turn nearly every illegal alien attempting to cross the border back to where they came from; to be able to track down tourist or student visa over stayers; if Mexico is willing to send them over by the 100,000's each year, then we need to be able to send them back by the 100,000's each year, except we can't, because we've invented ourselves a process, dragging in the lawyers, the judges, the courts, expert witnesses that testify as to the lord only knows what, and it's all far too complicated to make the needed decisions in a speedy and judicious manner, so it drags out for years, and as it drags out, the illegal alien, released on their own recognizance, disappears into the woodwork, never to be found again (or at least a very low probability of being found again).

The mere fact that they do disappear into the woodwork sheds light as to why we are, once again (recall the Regan era), in this conflict of whom to amnesty and make legal, and whom not to amnesty and basically send back if we find them.

Simplify it. Make it consistent. Make it easy to enforce and easy to understand. Make the consequences clear and simple as well. You know. Real immigration reform. Not yet another same-o-same-o, or worse, something even more complicated and time consuming.

Why not adopt the same immigration policies that Mexico has, point by point? That'd be fair, right? We treat Mexican illegal aliens the same way that Mexico treats their illegal aliens.
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You mean you want America to treat illiegals with the same level of tolerance and mercy that Mexico treated that American marine who crossed the border by accident.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I continue asking because I think the world has gone insane.

I don't know when you were born or what you experienced in life to make you think the way you do, but at some point you must have had some sense of empathy.

I am only 22 years old, but I read and watch enough to know what human suffering is

Call me naive but I care for other people if i see that they are suffering.

I don't understand what life expierences you must have faced in life to make you so unsympathetic to other people.
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The Sally Struthers act is the sort of false empathy/sympathy that creates more problems than it solves. You're 22 and entitled to wear your heart on your sleeve and be uneducated about the world. You should however be educating yourself and learning at this point.

You have displayed a remarkable naiveté even for a 22 year old. Instead of asking why others aren't sympathetic like you are, you should be asking, why does everyone compare me to Sally Struthers?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
You mean you want America to treat illiegals with the same level of tolerance and mercy that Mexico treated that American marine who crossed the border by accident.
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Do you have any clue how Mexico treats foreign nationals who are illegal border crossers? We are cake and ice cream by comparison.
 
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