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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    You know that cellphone innovation/advancement has nothing to do with the service it provides being regulated.
    And you also know that you said "Heh, ok." to that.

    As I replied; That is right. You were wrong and it is okay.
    So do you want to keep going in circles with this?
    Heh OK is a phrase of dismissal not agreement ...

    As in I am dismissing your arguments until you have either new ones or can counter my points

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Kobie.

    Same here in NE Ohio with Time Warner, Kobie. When you call them, the first question the answering machine asks is whether it's your internet or your TV giving you problems - then you get routed to the correct department, and the fun begins. It usually means that we have to take the cable box/modem to them and getting another one to replace it. My brother finally went to Dish and he's been aggravation free at his house for years!
    Sometimes.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Your lack of spending time has lead you to make an erroneous statement.
    Nowhere is it evident that he does, or does not understand what you call slow lanes.
    does he support net neutrality?

    do you?

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    The initial argument was that cell phones were so advanced due to a lack of stifling regulations, set forth as an example against net neutrality.

    Cell phones are subject to a number of FCC regulations as well as any regulations that pertain when they interface to the legacy phone system to make a call, yet cell phones advance at an astounding rate.

    Also in spite of stifling regulations on phone systems, a number of innovations and upgrades were made, such as digital packet switching on the back end.

    All of this shows that Cruz was wrong as are you for agreeing with him.
    Yes, but how many of those innovations use technology created with public funding? How much are these companies really doing themselves with their own money? If the government is just going to fund research then they can effectively cover up the damage their regulations are causing.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, but how many of those innovations use technology created with public funding? How much are these companies really doing themselves with their own money?
    I suspect almost all of the innovation is done with public funding with the possible exception of the standards bodies which can have joint funding.

    I do not see how this is relevant though.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    And I'm right there with you. I support net neutrality, but not necessarily Net Neutrality.

    Well done!
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    I suspect almost all of the innovation is done with public funding with the possible exception of the standards bodies which can have joint funding.

    I do not see how this is relevant though.
    It's perfectly relevant. If the government is the body providing the money to do any sort of research then the business does not have to worry about that aspect of their company nor does the government have to worry about the damage their regulations are causing to innovation.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It's perfectly relevant. If the government is the body providing the money to do any sort of research then the business does not have to worry about that aspect of their company nor does the government have to worry about the damage their regulations are causing to innovation.
    I am still not seeing the connection.

    The fundamental point was that FCC regulation prevented the technological growth of telephony, that point was debunked on multiple points, but an implicit assumption I made within my argument was that the funding for research and development largely came from industry and that despite regulation there was still opportunity for growth.

    In other words the regulations did not freeze innovation as was claimed by Cruz.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    I am still not seeing the connection.

    The fundamental point was that FCC regulation prevented the technological growth of telephony, that point was debunked on multiple points, but an implicit assumption I made within my argument was that the funding for research and development largely came from industry and that despite regulation there was still opportunity for growth.

    In other words the regulations did not freeze innovation as was claimed by Cruz.
    Cruz being an idiot not withstanding, innovation in welfare states largely comes from the government. The point I was making is that this is an excellent way to cover up your own tracks. This way the economy is now dependent on you for innovation, so if your taxes are a bit too high or if your regulations are a bit too costly will have no real effect on innovation. It's entirely possible that regulations do cost enough to make private innovation pretty much impossible, but since the government already covers the bill it's more or less impossible to tell.
    Last edited by Henrin; 11-18-14 at 08:09 PM.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Cruz being an idiot not withstanding, innovation in welfare states largely comes from the government. The point I was making is that this is an excellent way to cover up your own tracks. This way the economy is now dependent on you for innovation, so if your taxes are a bit too high or if your regulations are bit too costly will have no real effect on innovation. It's entirely possible that regulations do cost enough to make private innovation pretty much impossible, but since the government already covers the bill it's more or less impossible to tell.
    Personally, I think regulating it as a utility is overkill. I think simply only allowing packet prioritization for security and network management should be enough.

    If we run into a situation where people can't get their Netflix due to there not being enough bandwidth on the back end, the customers will largely handle it. Even in cases of a local monopoly as those companies will want to protect their brands. They could cut a deal with Netflix to host their most popular selections in a local data center for example.

    It leaves a bit of gray area for the courts, sure, but I would prefer to let the market figure out how to get broadband out to rural areas and other innovations.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 11-18-14 at 08:12 PM.

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