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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

  1. #21
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The only reason that he may not, is that it is a dishonest question in regards to the topic.

    The real question in regards to this topic should be; Can you tell us how classifying the internet as a utility restricts innovation?
    Cruz already answered that question.


    Cruz is against trying to achieve neutrality by classifying the internet as a utility.
    Which is what his comments are about.
    As he stated in his published opinion, the following is what he wants.
    In the past, such a person would have to know the right people and raise substantial start-up capital to get a brick-and-mortar store running. Not anymore. The Internet is the great equalizer when it comes to jobs and opportunity. We should make a commitment, right now, to keep it that way.
    Cruz has given his opinion as to what regulators MAY do... There are no proposal from the Obama administration or the FCC to do what Mr. Cruz is suggesting MIGHT happen...Is there?

    There are actual proposals and actions already being implemented by ISPs which have consumer groups concerned NOW ...Correct?

    Throttling is happening now...Correct? What protections and guarrantees do the consumers have that ISP's will not do what consumer groups claim?

    Do you know that Ted Cruz and Congress have over-sight of the FCC? That means that is the FCC enacts any regulation[s] that kills "innovation"... Ted Cruz and Congress can order the FCC to change its rule? Did you know Congress has that power?

    If the FCC has no regulatory power over ISPs, who can stop ISPs from doing as they wish? Ted Cruz?
    Last edited by 1750Texan; 11-18-14 at 07:31 AM.


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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    So when Ted Cruz says "In short, net neutrality is Obamacare for the Internet. It would put the government in charge of determining Internet pricing, terms of service and what types of products and services can be delivered, leading to fewer choices, fewer opportunities and higher prices." You agree with him?

    Ted Cruz doesn't understand the issue, and seemingly you seem to be ignorant on the matter as well.
    The only ignorance here is yours, as it is you who doesn't understand what he is speaking to.
    He is speaking to Obama's proposal to have the FCC classify the internet as a Utility.

    Do you really not understand that?

    Btw, you forgot to include the information as to what he was speaking to in your quote.
    He is speaking to regulation by the FCC that classifying it as a Utility would bring forth.

    In short, net neutrality is Obamacare for the Internet. It would put the government in charge of determining Internet pricing, terms of service and what types of products and services can be delivered, leading to fewer choices, fewer opportunities and higher prices.

    President Obama this week came out aggressively for net neutrality and turning the Internet into a public utility. Some in the online community have embraced this call, thinking that cheaper prices would result. But when has that worked? Government-regulated utilities invariably destroy innovation and freedom. Which is more innovative, the U.S. Postal Service or Facebook and Twitter? Which is better for consumers, city taxi commissions or Uber and Lyft?

    If the federal government seizes the power to regulate Internet pricing and goods and services, the regulations will never end.


    And as pointed out previously, in a post that you even liked, he, like most folks, want it to remain the way it is.

    In the past, such a person would have to know the right people and raise substantial start-up capital to get a brick-and-mortar store running. Not anymore. The Internet is the great equalizer when it comes to jobs and opportunity. We should make a commitment, right now, to keep it that way.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The only ignorance here is yours, as it is you who doesn't understand what he is speaking to.
    He is speaking to Obama's proposal to have the FCC classify the internet as a Utility.

    Do you really not understand that?

    Btw, you forgot to include the information as to what he was speaking to in your quote.
    He is speaking to regulation by the FCC that classifying it as a Utility would bring forth.

    In short, net neutrality is Obamacare for the Internet. It would put the government in charge of determining Internet pricing, terms of service and what types of products and services can be delivered, leading to fewer choices, fewer opportunities and higher prices.

    President Obama this week came out aggressively for net neutrality and turning the Internet into a public utility. Some in the online community have embraced this call, thinking that cheaper prices would result. But when has that worked? Government-regulated utilities invariably destroy innovation and freedom. Which is more innovative, the U.S. Postal Service or Facebook and Twitter? Which is better for consumers, city taxi commissions or Uber and Lyft?

    If the federal government seizes the power to regulate Internet pricing and goods and services, the regulations will never end.


    And as pointed out previously, in a post that you even liked, he, like most folks, want it to remain the way it is.

    In the past, such a person would have to know the right people and raise substantial start-up capital to get a brick-and-mortar store running. Not anymore. The Internet is the great equalizer when it comes to jobs and opportunity. We should make a commitment, right now, to keep it that way.
    Whether the internet is classified as a utility is meaningless.


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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The only ignorance here is yours, as it is you who doesn't understand what he is speaking to.
    He is speaking to Obama's proposal to have the FCC classify the internet as a Utility.
    You are just yanking my chain, right? There's no way you are being completely honest about all of this. I just don't believe you.

    And what is wrong with Obama's proposal, exactly? If the FCC classify the internet as a utility, Telecom companies won't be allowed to throttle their internet to people who don't pay extra for the same data as others who pay extra for it. There's nothing else about Obama's proposal that suggests anything remotely close to what Ted Cruz is speaking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Do you really not understand that?
    You're the one here completely wrong on the issue here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Btw, you forgot to include the information as to what he was speaking to in your quote.
    He is speaking to regulation by the FCC that classifying it as a Utility would bring forth.

    In short, net neutrality is Obamacare for the Internet. It would put the government in charge of determining Internet pricing, terms of service and what types of products and services can be delivered, leading to fewer choices, fewer opportunities and higher prices.

    President Obama this week came out aggressively for net neutrality and turning the Internet into a public utility. Some in the online community have embraced this call, thinking that cheaper prices would result. But when has that worked? Government-regulated utilities invariably destroy innovation and freedom. Which is more innovative, the U.S. Postal Service or Facebook and Twitter? Which is better for consumers, city taxi commissions or Uber and Lyft?

    If the federal government seizes the power to regulate Internet pricing and goods and services, the regulations will never end.
    I'm going to assume you misread or misunderstand the debate here. As you just stated Ted Cruz believes Net Neutrality will allow the Government to run roughshod on the internet. (Which is doesn't.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And as pointed out previously, in a post that you even liked, he, like most folks, want it to remain the way it is.
    I agree, people would like the internet to remain the way it is. Which is why Net Neutrality needs to be protected. Ted Cruz is standing against Net Neutrality. Not for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    In the past, such a person would have to know the right people and raise substantial start-up capital to get a brick-and-mortar store running. Not anymore. The Internet is the great equalizer when it comes to jobs and opportunity. We should make a commitment, right now, to keep it that way.
    [/quote]

    Again, Ted Cruz doesn't understand the issue. If he did, he would understand Net Neutrality isn't the Obamacare of the Internet.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Cruz has given his opinion as to what regulators MAY do... There are no proposal from the Obama administration or the FCC to do what Mr. Cruz is suggesting MIGHT happen...Is there?
    Odd, I do not recall that Politicians are not supposed to point out the supposed downfalls of legislation.
    And classifying it as a Utility like Obama wants has many a pitfall and is not needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Throttling is happening now...Correct?
    Not just throttling, but packet prioritization also.
    And it is going to happen regardless of neutrality (for pay packet prioritization), because it has too.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    What protections and guarrantees do the consumers have that ISP's will not do what consumer groups claim?
    And here is the problem. That is a topic for a different discussion.
    This is about classifying it as a Utility which is not needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Do you know that Ted Cruz and Congress have over-sight of the FCC? That means that is the FCC enacts any regulation[s] that kills "innovation"... Ted Cruz and Congress can order the FCC to change its rule? Did you know Congress has that power?
    Irrelevant.
    One should not want to give that power to the Government and by virtue, to political appointees for our elected reps have to react against it in the first place.
    Especially when it is not needed.
    All you have done is highlight another reason as to why it shouldn't be classified as a utility. Politicization.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Whether the internet is classified as a utility is meaningless.
    Wrong.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    You are just yanking my chain, right? There's no way you are being completely honest about all of this. I just don't believe you.

    And what is wrong with Obama's proposal, exactly? If the FCC classify the internet as a utility, Telecom companies won't be allowed to throttle their internet to people who don't pay extra for the same data as others who pay extra for it. There's nothing else about Obama's proposal that suggests anything remotely close to what Ted Cruz is speaking about.

    Holy ****.
    This is you not understanding the real issue then.

    Cruz is absolutely correct that classifying it as a utility opens it up to further regulation and taxation.
    Do you really not understand that?


    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    You're the one here completely wrong on the issue here.

    No. That would be you and your absurd comments.


    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    I'm going to assume you misread or misunderstand the debate here. As you just stated Ted Cruz believes Net Neutrality will allow the Government to run roughshod on the internet. (Which is doesn't.)
    Wrong. That would be you not understanding what he is saying. As pointed out.
    He is stating what classifying it as a utility would bring about.


    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Ted Cruz is standing against Net Neutrality. Not for it.

    Being against classifying it as a utility is not being against neutrality. That is nothing more than an idiotic argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    Again, Ted Cruz doesn't understand the issue. If he did, he would understand Net Neutrality isn't the Obamacare of the Internet.
    He certainly understands the issue far more than you do as classifying it as a Utility it is Obamacare for the internet.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    Whether the internet is classified as a utility is meaningless.
    Wrong.
    And here is partially why.
    New taxes.

    President Obama's public stance that the FCC should reclassify broadband internet services as a Title II "common carrier" under the current Telecommunications Act carries many ramifications, but one is undeniable: there's going to be a hidden tax hike, and it's going to be paid for by consumers.
    Title II common carriers are required to "contribute" to what's called the Universal Service Fund - a government program to bring telecommunications services to underserved areas with the goal of universal coverage. Whether it's called "contributions" or fees or whatnot, the function of the program is a tax on corporate revenues in order to fund services for those who might not have them otherwise. It's a redistributive corporate tax paid for by consumers.

    The USF tax amounts to more than a 16% charge on top of consumers' bills. As broadband service providers are not currently subject to the USF tax, a reclassification would mean that all consumers would see a jump around that size in their bill. Considering that in some locales, the cheapest broadband service runs upwards of $50 per month, this will cost even the most price-conscious consumers an extra $100 per year - and for those at higher tiers, much more than that.

    FCC commissioners past and present have agreed that the this net neutrality tax is unavoidable in a Title II reclassification scenario. In a discussion at the National Press Club on Friday, current FCC commissioner Ajit Pai laid out exactly what consumers would be seeing on their bills.

    "Public utility regulation would mean higher broadband prices for consumers," Pai said. "Once broadband is classified as a telecommunications service, universal service charges would be assessed on carriers' broadband services. Many state and local taxes would automatically kick in."

    "The net result is that every single American broadband customer would have to pay a new tax - or taxes - to access the internet."

    An FCC decision to go with title II reclassification in order to enforce new net neutrality regulations would have a lot of deleterious effects. One of the most obvious is that it would be a tax hike on a service that the government believes is essential to American life.


    The Net Neutrality Tax Hike - Kevin Glass



    While he may say that it wouldn't be appropriate to apply, even Obama acknowledges that rate regulation comes with classifying it as a Utility.

    Even President Obama conceded that a strict Title II approach would not by itself be sufficient because there are hundreds of rules applying to telephone service common carriers that would be inappropriate to apply to broadband, like, for example, rate regulation.

    In addition, even Title II does not ban paid prioritization completely.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/te...net-rules.html
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This really is what it boils down to. ISPs have infiltrated the government and now it is up to the consumers/content providers to tell Washington to shove it and stop bull****ting us. That John Oliver had to point out that Obama is as much in bed with ISPs as Ted Cruz shows why this needs to be legislated in a way that keeps the system exactly as it has been for 25+ years. No more, no less. I feel like Democrats are too pussy to actually take this issue the way it should be taken and Republicans have too many campaign contributions to lose if they stand in favor of NN. So we're left with a situation where:

    1. Both parties are in bed with ISPs.
    2. The president is in bed with ISPs.
    3. ISPs have their former executives overseeing the death of net neutrality.
    4. The mainstream media arguing in favor of big business (thanks to NBCUniversal).
    5. Content providers/creators like Google, Facebook, DeviantArt, 500px, Wikipedia all being opposed to attacks on NN.

    and finally....

    6. Users who are going to get screwed no matter what.

    I for one do not have much hope that things will improve but will do my best to join any demonstration in favor of net neutrality. It simply is a necessary part of innovation on the internet.
    I think the best thing that people who actually know what NN is is to call it what it is, BS.

    The GOP are so friggin disingenuous with this it makes me sick. The Dems, they're spineless as ever on this, but that's nothing new.

    All this is is an attempt by cable companies and telecoms to become kingmakers and make sure they get a cut of anything that goes across they networks. Essentially they're trying to create transportation fees for the internet when you break it down. The problem is the customer doesn't have a say, I want to view Drudge? OOPS, sorry, Comcast is a HuffPost exclusive provider, but as a courtesy for Comcast customers Comcast has made a special agreement with TimeWarner that will allow you to get Drudge for an additional $1 a month on your bill.

    That's only one concern, the raping of the customer's pocketbook. Now what about the customers mind? Well Comcast doesn't like website ABC because ABC has had some harsh criticism for Comcast or some of it's affiliates, well low and behold all you get from now on at that location is a 405 Invalid Method screen. hundreds of thousands if not literally millions of websites now go bye bye.

    Internet marketing? Why should Google or Facebook get advertising dollars and not the company who provides the broadband those ads are transmitted on?


    I mean the list can go on and on on why this is a completely asinine proposal to be in support of.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Wrong. It is you who has shown that he does not understand what Cruz is speaking to even though you have been told multiple times.

    There is no need to classify it as a utility to obtain neutrality.

    Your arguments against Cruz's stated position is nothing more than dishonesty.
    But we have to change the classification of the internet in order to keep it the same as it is.

    The trick used here is to say that net neutrality can only continue to exist if we tax the internet more. In other words, if you don't favor paying a utility tax then you oppose net neutrality - never mind that we have net neutrality now (and have always had it) without an added utility tax.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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