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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

  1. #261
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You already pay for internet access at a certain speed. The video conferencing company adds value by the features they add to their software. The cable company charging them an additional fee above what you pay for broadband usage is a non-value added charge that is possible only because the cable company controls the method of delivery. No value is added to the product, the method of delivery is already something the consumer is charged for, yet you'll have to pay higher fees?

    The only winner in this situation is cable companies. They don't lay more wire, they don't provide a better service, they get additional money for nothing.
    As an ISP, what do I need to provide "better" internet? I need better wire and better servers, right?

    How do I get those things? I have to buy them, right?

    How do I get the money to buy them? I charge my customers.

    Right now I have all of my customers paying more or less the same rate no matter how much of my resource they're using. What I'd really like to do is charge my customers who use more of my resources more money for that benefit. So what I did is I looked at my customers' resource usage and noticed that "PornStream.com" is using a ****load of bandwidth. I turn around and tell them, "Hey, you guys are using a ton of my resource and that makes it hard for me to provide services to new customers so I need to either charge you more or cut back on the amount of resource I allocate to you. The good news is that if you choose to pay more then I'll be able to get more potential customers to come your way." PornStream hems and haws a little but they pay the fee anyway and a year later they have more customers and are making more money. PornStream's customers are happy because with that extra revenue PornStream added a naked asian midgets in lederhosen page. Sure, their cable bill went up a couple of bucks but who doesn't want naked lederhosen midgets?

    Now I may be mistaken but my understanding of how "net neutrality" is going to work is that in the above scenario I, as the ISP, get to pay the government to make sure that I can't charge "PornStream.com" more for their bandwidth usage. That benefits...well, I guess it only benefits the government. Pornstream gets the same service they always had. Harry Palms gets the same porn he always had. The only thing that's changed is that there's a new fee on his internet bill every month and no naked midgets.

  2. #262
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Meister View Post
    A solution? How about a lack of solution being the solution?

    I haven't experienced any negative effects dealing with the internet.
    Okay, how about you offer a reason why ISPs won't throttle?

    Please aside from magic, what is stopping monopolies from engaging in behavior to literally charge you extra for every packet of data you want delivered or received within a reasonable period of time?

    Are you COMPLETELY UNAWARE that ISPs have throttled Netflixks?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #263
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That ain't going to happen. So many Congress members like Cruz are bought and paid for by the telecoms that they will never, ever, ever vote for this. It's easier to get the GOP to remove nuclear and oil subsidies than it will be for them to vote to cut off the high revenue tier structure from their donors.

    Ted Cruz's plan is to make NN sound bad as a tool to hammer Obama on during the GOP primaries. The amount of damage he can do purely by associating it with the ACA and Obama will cause plenty of Republicans to vote against it purely out of their own primary concerns.

    That law would be nice, but it's not even remotely realistic given telecom contributions and what Ted Cruz is doing in terms of association.
    I disagree. I think similar to you in terms of actually busting up the telecom psuedo-monopolies...which is my preferred method but I realize it's a fools errand and a philisophical debate not a realistic one...but I don't think it's the case here. Are the telecoms influential? Absolutely. But I think this is a burning enough issue to actually have ramification on campaigns, and that can get attention of the parties. I think there's enough chance of putting some republicans together with a majority of democrats (ridiculous it's become this politicized, but not shocking that it has) and actually getting such a thing passed.

    Is it as easy a making it a utility would be? No. But I don't think it's unrealistic as an option, and I think the POTENTIAL damage that making it a utility would be greater than the potential damage from taking a few years to get it passed as a law.

    I'm in favor of the utility route over doing nothing. I'm in favor of taking a few years if necessary to go the law route over the utility route now. While the telecoms are definitely making a race to get to an internet guided less and less by neutrality principles, we're still a ways off from it actually occuring in a significantly impactful fashion. If by 2016 or 2018, after the next presidential election, we've still not managed to get such a law passed then I'd be more open to looking down the utility path way. But I don't think this is something that "MUST BE ACTED ON NOW", but I do think action is needed.

    And either way...Reverend's stance is significantly different than just getting on the Cruz and others bandwagon of "what it is now is perfectly fine" with no stated desire what so ever to take action to ensure neutrality principles.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    As an ISP, what do I need to provide "better" internet? I need better wire and better servers, right?
    Your first question sets you for failure. You should ask "Why do I need to provide a better internet?" Not "what do I need." In a monopoly, you don't need to. Therefore the rest of your post is irrelevant.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which is cop out.

    Excon once again proves all he can do is complain. Never expect a solution from Excon. He has none. Nor will he have any.
    Your focus on me and for the reasons stated (which is wrong) is nothing more than an example of a person who can not form a coherent argument and instead attacks the poster.
    Expected typical liberal bs.

    Try discussing the actual topic for a change.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And you are wrong. You have no greater point. It was stifled by regulation. And doesn't even come close to the innovation from the unregulated industry that he contrasted it with.
    Its the same industry, telephony. Phones have data services and enhanced technologies, but unless one goes pure VoIP like skype, you are still using phone numbers.

    911 is still regulated to work. You have taxes on your cell phone bill. You have access to tty for the deaf. Etc...

    But all of the back end stuff was converted to digital packet switched protocols in the 80s and 90s regardless of the last mile being a copper wire or radio waves. Regulation didn't hinder that. Just because you and Cruz didn't see the upgrades right in front of them doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    Did you ever use a party line for example where multiple houses had to share? That doesn't happen for example, in your scenario we would still be in that situation.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 11-18-14 at 06:06 PM.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay, how about you offer a reason why ISPs won't throttle?

    Please aside from magic, what is stopping monopolies from engaging in behavior to literally charge you extra for every packet of data you want delivered or received within a reasonable period of time?

    Are you COMPLETELY UNAWARE that ISPs have throttled Netflixks?
    Not aware of it, I don't use netflix.
    Like I said, what I use the internet for hasn't been affected one iota.
    Seems the liberals think the only answer to a problem is G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T.
    I bet there are avenues which to alleviate your problem with 'netflix' without the government.
    I don't know what just yet because I didn't know you had a problem with 'netflix', But, I will look into it.

  8. #268
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I disagree. I think similar to you in terms of actually busting up the telecom psuedo-monopolies...which is my preferred method but I realize it's a fools errand and a philisophical debate not a realistic one...but I don't think it's the case here. Are the telecoms influential? Absolutely. But I think this is a burning enough issue to actually have ramification on campaigns, and that can get attention of the parties. I think there's enough chance of putting some republicans together with a majority of democrats (ridiculous it's become this politicized, but not shocking that it has) and actually getting such a thing passed.
    Ideally, competition removes the need for such laws entirely. Look at auto insurance. I can't agree that there will be enough Republicans to vote on this. The #1 threat politically to Republicans these days is a primary challenge. And if Ted Cruz can associate NN with ACA and Obama that's going to create a picture in many primary voters minds that it's a government over reach regardless of whatever NN laws get passed. Plenty of Republicans are simply going to vote no on that because of primary issues. Guarantee you that Republican primary challengers are going to link the incumbent's vote on NN to government take over even when it's not. The country is too polarized, primary are way too extreme and gerry mandering is seriously screwing up everything. Maybe in 2008 we could have done this, but it's not going to happen when often the first thing Republican Legislators are think about is how this affects their primary election. Call me cynical, but gerrymander right now is the #1 problem of America as it causes all of these other problems down the road. That is the core rot of America and until we solve that, actual good laws that you and I think should get passed won't.

    Is it as easy a making it a utility would be? No. But I don't think it's unrealistic as an option, and I think the POTENTIAL damage that making it a utility would be greater than the potential damage from taking a few years to get it passed as a law.
    Is that worse than moving to a pay per page view internet? IMO, doing nothing as Excon wants is not the solution.

    I'm in favor of the utility route over doing nothing. I'm in favor of taking a few years if necessary to go the law route over the utility route now. While the telecoms are definitely making a race to get to an internet guided less and less by neutrality principles, we're still a ways off from it actually occuring in a significantly impactful fashion. If by 2016 or 2018, after the next presidential election, we've still not managed to get such a law passed then I'd be more open to looking down the utility path way. But I don't think this is something that "MUST BE ACTED ON NOW", but I do think action is needed.
    There is another solution. Offer loans and tax credits to firms to start up competition. Essentially follow the Japanese government model that busted up their monopolies and now lets Japanese users have some of the fastest internet on the planet at some of the lowest rates. They have do have throttling there, but the capacity is so high and pricing so cheap that it rarely happens. Utility is the least preferable option over doing nothing.

    And either way...Reverend's stance is significantly different than just getting on the Cruz and others bandwagon of "what it is now is perfectly fine" with no stated desire what so ever to take action to ensure neutrality principles.
    I will agree to that. I just really despise people who complain and offer no solutions.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #269
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Verizon and comcast throttled Netflix until Netflix paid the ransom,

    Netflix Agrees To Pay Comcast To End Slowdown
    Actually, your article says different and notes that this WAS NOT a "net neutrality" issue.

    As we’ve pointed out before, the issue of peering was not covered by the recently gutted net neutrality rules. Those guidelines only dealt with whether an ISP deliberately blocked/throttled or unfairly prioritized traffic to a website. The congestion at peering ports occurs further upstream and is a matter of capacity.
    added emphasis is mine.

  10. #270
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Meister View Post
    Not aware of it, I don't use netflix.
    Like I said, what I use the internet for hasn't been affected one iota.
    By that measure, France and Britain should have just let Hitler take over the rest of Europe before he attacked them. If you cannot see the writing on the wall, I cannot help you.

    Seems the liberals think the only answer to a problem is G-O-V-E-R-N-M-E-N-T.
    Then Zyphlin is a liberal then. Rather than just relying on idiotic labeling, how about you offer a solution?

    I bet there are avenues which to alleviate your problem with 'netflix' without the government.
    I don't know what just yet because I didn't know you had a problem with 'netflix', But, I will look into it.
    So you, like Excon have nothing but complaints? No solutions? Worthless.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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