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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    This is net neutrality, not the govenrment democrat bill called "Net Neutrality".
    And how do you propose we maintain it without some form of regulation?

    Excon believes in magic as he has literally no actual other plan. Cruz believes in Magic as well. Actually I think Cruz knows he's 100% wrong he's merely farming dumb voters for primary votes.

    Thing is, all of the idiots here arguing against regulation have offered nothing as a plan to maintain actual net neutrality. It's like they magically think it will just stay that way despite ISPs clearly moving to throttling and a tiered system. Seems like the same batcrazy beliefs that made many of the praise the magical Ryan "budget" plan that had zero basis in reality.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    A liberal citing a comedy show to make their case. Who saw that coming?
    A quasi-conservative getting my lean wrong and attacking the source instead of the content. Who saw that coming?
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    First off if you have read all my posts in this thread, then you should know that earlier I stated I am quite leery of a bunch of lawyers that are completely ignorant of the subject (ie: Ted Cruz) writing laws that govern this.

    That said, if we are going to enforce a common carrier principle for internet providers - which is what net neutrality is, then there has to be some sort of oversight. Hell I can setup a QoS class and policy about as quick as I can write this post, so without some sort of minimal regulatory oversight, how do you propose we prevent the Comcasts and Time Warners out there from doing the same?
    ultimately, you are going to have to rely on the consumer class to not get bent over and shafted.

    Personally, I feel that when it is business doing the shafting, we have far more avenues to pursue then when it is the government doing the shafting.

    So until I see real signs of big problems today, not potential for problems down the road, I am not giving any government agency more power.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And how do you propose we maintain it without some form of regulation?
    If you read up a few posts, I've addressed this.

    Excon believes in magic as he has literally no actual other plan. Cruz believes in Magic as well.

    I am not on thier side either.



    Thing is, all of the idiots here arguing against regulation have offered nothing as a plan to maintain actual net neutrality. It's like they magically think it will just stay that way despite ISPs clearly moving to throttling and a tiered system. Seems like the same batcrazy beliefs that made many of the praise the magical Ryan "budget" plan that had zero basis in reality.

    I have offered alternatives (see above) so I guess I am not one of the "idiots" you speak of. *shrug*
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I hear where you're coming from but that just doesn't seem likely to me. It would be silly for an ISP to tie up a vendor like that. They'd be stuck with that particular vendors product no matter what anyone else came up with and their customers would revolt over not having choices.
    When the choice is no internet or throttled/pay per page, there isn't much of a revolt. If an ISP can extract additional revenues on throttling when there is zero competition, why wouldn't they do it? So many people here are ignoring that most people have one provider option.

    The flip side is that by charging more for certain services they can turn that additional revenue into improved infrastructure faster than before. I know that being anti-corporate is the "in thing" these days but corporations as a whole just plain are not as mean and evil as people make them out to be.
    Possible, but unlikely. Why would they want to increase capacity when they can simply wring more money out of existing capacity and spend nothing on improvements? Again, a monopoly doesn't need to compete. Just because they're private doesn't mean they have to actually improve anything when they're a monopoly.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    If you read up a few posts, I've addressed this.
    Give me a brief summary. The last time I checked this thread is was one page.

    I am not on thier side either.
    That is good to hear.

    I have offered alternatives (see above) so I guess I am not one of the "idiots" you speak of. *shrug*
    Good. People who complain and never, ever, ever offer realistic solutions are worthless people.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I hear where you're coming from but that just doesn't seem likely to me. It would be silly for an ISP to tie up a vendor like that. They'd be stuck with that particular vendors product no matter what anyone else came up with and their customers would revolt over not having choices.
    There's not much danger of revolt if there's not a ton of options. Take something like teleconferencing. You need significant speeds for that. A 10 Mpbs satallite signal is not likely going to be your option. It's cable or it's a fiber setup like FiOS most likely. And you'll have what? One? Two? MAYBE three if you're likely choices?

    And that's the danger with monopolies or duopolies and the like...it's only a danger to the company if it's doing it but a competitor isn't. But there's no reason to think that the competitors won't get on board with doing something similar when there's no risk to do it.

    If Cable Company X has an exclusive deal with Adobe and Fiber Company Y has an exclusive deal with WebEx, and you want to use goto meeting...well you're ****ed. And neither company needs to fear that their taking of additional money from Adobe/WebEx is going to harm them in losing a customer, because the customer has no other option besides just giving up having those services all together (ie, not a real option).

    The flip side is that by charging more for certain services they can turn that additional revenue into improved infrastructure faster than before.
    That's all nice and warm and fuzzy, but it ignores basic business principles. The telecoms are not going to upgrade infastructure more than the NEED to upgrade them. There's absolutely zero reason to believe that increased money gained from charging content providers are going to simply go into improved infrastructure as opposed to simply being profits on top of the botton line. This isn't "anti-corporate", it's basic business...a business is not going to spend money it doesn't need to spend simply because it makes people feel warm and fuzzy. They'll upgrade the infastructure if it's in their BUSINESS interest to do so....but they would do that regardless of whether or not the content providers were paying them extra cash, because if they NEEDED the upgrade to do business they'd do the upgrade.

    The argument that "Oh, they'll just use that money to improve infrastructure" just simply doesn't hold water in a basic business sense.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    If I can implement QoS, CoS, and other Traffic Shaping policies to prioritize certain traffic over other traffic (ie: the companies that are paying me to prioritize my traffic), then there is far less of an incentive for me to upgrade my infrastructure as my "preferred" traffic is always the first in line. Moreover, in most markets I have no real competition, thus my end user customers can either continue to buy my service, or go with something much slower.
    It's not just the companies. There's to my knowledge, nothing stopping the ISP from offering fast lane treatment of certain applications payment options directly to the individual customer. ISP could charge both ways till the internet is as slow as dial up for everyone who isn't paying extra.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And how do you propose we maintain it without some form of regulation?
    He's already answered that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I support a net neutrality as posted in my graphic, a simple law stating that Internet service providers and governments must treat all data on the Internet equally, not discriminating or charging differently basis of user, content, site, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication.
    Graphic he's talking about:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I has visual aids:


    Essentially, a law mandating that the principles of net neutrality be held up...which I believe is similar, but an expanded version, of what the FCC recently had struck down...but not actually classifying them as a utility, which gives the government expanded power to potentially regulate the industry BEYOND simply enforcing net neutrality and also requires the industry to start paying an additional tax.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    ultimately, you are going to have to rely on the consumer class to not get bent over and shafted.

    Personally, I feel that when it is business doing the shafting, we have far more avenues to pursue then when it is the government doing the shafting.

    So until I see real signs of big problems today, not potential for problems down the road, I am not giving any government agency more power.
    How can the customer do anything when in most markets they have no other alternatives. Moreover, it already has been a problem.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/bu...ment.html?_r=0
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