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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    As I pointed out earlier, this is what I do. So I know my **** on this. You will hardly find any Sr. IT professionals out there that are not for the principle of net neutrality.
    Sure you could. They work for Verizon and Comcast and Cox and others. Hell, I believe there's one such person on this forum continually acting like he's some kind of neutral bystandard that just thinks Net Neutrality is a bad idea for completely altuiristic reasons.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    A liberal citing a comedy show to make their case. Who saw that coming?
    That's always how they do it. That or scary charts/comics
    There's no greater irony than a Trump supporter pointing out hypocrisy; Unless it's Trump himself.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Net Neutrality does not mean that an ISP cannot firewall certain tcp ports on a consumer internet connection (a lot of malware utilizes port 25 for communication) It simply means that they cannot tag packets at the layer 2 or layer 7 level and prioritize their content over competing content.
    network neutrality has not been codified. what you want it to mean is not what it means. it's a buzzword to discuss a subject. it isn't a legal concept.

    huge difference exists between supporting the principals of network neutrality and supporting government legislation.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So basically you have 2 options, Cox or Comcast. The CIR with DSL is terrible and its not really comparable to cable in terms of speed (plus for various technical reasons a dsl connection performance drops dramatically when shared across multiple devices). Satellite internet has terrible latency and really is only viable at all for those in rural areas with no other choice.

    So just like with any other utility, you have very little choice in providers.
    Wouldn't that depend on what you need broadband service for? I had DSL in the office for several years and really had nothing to complain about. I switched to cable when it became available but that was primarily because I was getting a better rate.

    My mother offices out of her house and lives, literally, one block past where cable service stops. She's used a variety of satellite services over the years and, on the whole, hasn't had any significant problems.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Why don't you read what Cruz said and keep it in context of regulating it like a Utility (as Obama wants) like the telephone services were.
    Then maybe you will understand the point he was trying to make.
    The point it seems both you and the esteemed senator has missed is that utility classification did not cause stifled innovation.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Do you want to answer my question? I will then answer yours.
    IMO If an ISP's customers exceed the ISPs available bandwidth at some point, then the available bandwidth should be allocated proportionally to the amount of bandwidth each consumer has purchased. If this happens chronically, then the ISP must either increase capacity or raise the price of bandwidth. The free market will decide which option is best.

    Your turn. Should an ISP be able to treat Netflix traffic different from Hulu traffic?

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Well, I'm probably going to use the video conferencing company that offers the best connections at the best rates. If they have to pay more for more bandwidth then that's on them, not me (other than their fee). Their business model requires lots and lots of bandwidth. Mine doesn't.
    But it's not about paying for bandwidth. Lets take his example.

    Company X and Company Y are consulting companies. They both have a plan purchased through the cable company that provides them with a 30 Mbps download speed, with a clear caveat in the fine print that the speed could be lower due to network congestion.

    Company X uses Adobe Connect as their means of teleconferencing. Adobe has an agreement in place with the cable company where they pay the cable company $X amount of money in order for their service to be on a "fast lane". Company X thus is able to do their teleconference at their full 30 Mbps speed they're paying for

    Company Y uses Webex as their means of teleconferencing. WebEx has no such agreement with the cable company. As such, the ISP throttles WebEx's services over their network, causing Company Y to only be able to do their video conference at 10 Mpbs.

    Company X and Y are paying for the same amount of bandwidth. However, because the service Company X is using pays the ISP money they actually get to use all that speed they're paying for. Meanwhlie, because the service Company Y uses doesn't pay, Company Y is hit with a reduction in speeds that is not network congestion related, therefore not geting their moneys worth.

    This isn't a case of Company X paying for more bandwidth then Company Y....they're paying the same money for the same bandwidth. But because a company on the other end didn't give the ISP money, their data is slowed down, and Company Y is screwed out of what it's paying for unless it changes its teleconferencing service.

    That arguably could screw up competition, but it becomes even worse if you imagine a scenario where Adobe doesn't just pay to keep its data in the "fast lane" (which is really just the normal lane), but rather pays an extra amount on top of that to be the exclusive teleconference service for that ISP...meaning if you use that ISP, it's either Adobe OR a slowed down teleconference service.

    A scenario like that is not allowable under net neutrality ideals and principles. It's ENTIRELY possible with what Verizon and other ISPs have been arguing for in front of courts that allows them to discriminate against data for any reason they want and allows for them to demand payment from content providers or else have their data throttled.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    network neutrality has not been codified. what you want it to mean is not what it means. it's a buzzword to discuss a subject. it isn't a legal concept.

    huge difference exists between supporting the principals of network neutrality and supporting government legislation.
    Either you believe that an ISP should not be able to prioritize their content over their competitors content or you don't. Once you accept that, its then just a question of how best to accomplish such a principle with public policy.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Wouldn't that depend on what you need broadband service for? I had DSL in the office for several years and really had nothing to complain about. I switched to cable when it became available but that was primarily because I was getting a better rate.

    My mother offices out of her house and lives, literally, one block past where cable service stops. She's used a variety of satellite services over the years and, on the whole, hasn't had any significant problems.
    There's undoubtably people out there that could reasonably get by with just using a 56k modem connection....that doens't mean it should be considered legitimate competition in the market place. And it's hardly a stirring endorsement for a market that allows innovation to thrive ("See, there's competition. You can use the extremey fast thing offered here or use the service that was the norm 20 years ago. CHOICE!")

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    If we are talking broadband, I have two options

    Hughes/dish Satellite, or Frontier DSL. that's it. no more exist.
    Hard to believe unless you live out in a rural community. Even then it'd have to be pretty small. Btw, Frontier bought a bunch of ATT and Verizon lines, but they still lease a bundle of them. It's not an exclusive lease so where Frontier exists there are other third tier providers who also lease those lines.

    Regardless, my thoughts on the subject: The ISPs have always fought for common carrier status. It's time to officially give it to them along with the rules that come with that. They'll be indemnified from content that flows over their network, but they'll also have to serve everyone equally.

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