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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thank you.

    I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see someone who doesn't like the utility option actually put forth a clear, reasonable, realistic alternative.

    And I agree with you entirely. I would be far more interested in passing legislation mandating that all entities must treat data on the internet equally as you say, except in situations of legitimate network congestion issues where there are no other reasonable solutions. The issue with such a law is that it still would need regulation by SOME government body or else it'd have no teeth, and I don't necessarily mind the FCC being that body. But I agree with you, I'd prefer that method to the utility method IF there's legitimate grounds for the government to be able to enforce such a law.

    Also agree with you on my general neutral to sour view of Cruz. Doesn't impress me much, and instances like this are a great example of why.
    So, simple question: Do you think an increase in NetFlix traffic on an ISP should be shared by all NetFlix users or all ISP customers?
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    What? You don't get to have it both ways...you can't claim that net neutrality exists but then claim it's not a law/regulation and at the same time act like it's not a principle.

    You seem to be confused.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    "net neutrality" can't exist and be nothing at the same time.

    Net neutrality, in it's current state, is a concept made up of various principles. Principles that the telecoms over the past decade have routinely and continually shat upon.

    Pinch your nose all you want and tell console yourself into believing that it's debate, but sadly smiley's aren't actually intelligent though. Sorry you don't like the fact I've provided numerous examples of telecoms violating the ideals behind net neutrality, but that doesn't make it so.

    Throttling P2P traffic for reasons other than pure network congestion issues. A telecom that offers phone service purposefully throttling Vonage use. Providers blocking some short clip streaming video services while allowing others. Companies making court briefs with their desire to pick and choose what data can travel over their network and fighting for the ability to charge content providers additional money or have their services throttled. These are things that "clearly indicate otherwise" that the notion of network neutrality is healty, alive, and well currently and that simply keeping the status quo actually assures that we remain with an internet that is largley government by net neutrality ideals.
    All irrelevant nonsense.
    Doesn't matter one bit what examples you have provided.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    ...Ted Cruz has suggested he doesn't want it to be a utility and that the "way it is now" is fine. That's advocating to remain at the status quo. The status quo is moving away from an internet largely governmed by the ideals of net neutrality.
    How sad.
    He has stated that he wants it to remain the way it is now, in context, that is with out it being classifieds a utility.
    So again, unless you got something that clearly indicates otherwise we need to stay within the context of what he said.

    So get to providing it and we can go from there.

    As it stands at this moment, this is about reclassifying it into a Utility, which as he pointed out, is just wrong.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thank you.

    I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see someone who doesn't like the utility option actually put forth a clear, reasonable, realistic alternative.

    Alternatives isn't what this topic is about.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So many arguments from ignorance on this subject. This is the same response I used in a different thread, but it applies here as well, so here goes:

    If you don't work as a Sr. Systems Admin, Sr. Network Admin, or Systems Engineer, then you have nothing to add to this debate and almost any argument you give will be based in ignorance.

    That said, I work as the Sr. System and Network Administrator for what is easily one of the highest traffic sites hosted in the Midwest (both in terms of bandwidth and page views). So I know my **** on this one.

    Basically, as wikipedia states Net Neutrality is:

    The principle that Internet service providers and governments should treat all data on the Internet equally, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, site, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication.

    That does not mean that under the current system you cannot buy higher tiers of internet service. These higher tiers of internet service basically mean that:

    1. Internet bandwidth at the provider is shared by less customers than lower tiered service.

    2. Internet bandwidth has a lower latency than lower tiered service.

    3. Your connection is more reliable (due to higher redundancy at the carrier level).

    Those are all available to you under the current system. What the current system does not allow for is a carrier or provider to prioritize their content over other providers, or to censor their competitors. For example, without net neutrality, Time Warner could utilize QoS to ensure that any voip packets coming from their service has a much lower latency than say a Vonage customer on their network. So calls from a TWC customer would be crystal clear while a Vonage customer would have forced jitter due to high latency. The same would be true for their video streaming vs say, Amazon's. Hell it could go so far as stock trades being prioritized over certain networks while others get higher latencies. The potential for corruption is nearly endless absent Net Neutrality. Who benefits from that other than carriers lobbying congress?
    Maybe this is a dumb question but if an ISP decides to screw with their customers as described then don't you think that those customers would switch ISP's so that they are no longer screwed with?

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Maybe this is a dumb question but if an ISP decides to screw with their customers as described then don't you think that those customers would switch ISP's so that they are no longer screwed with?
    Exactly!

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    .Net Neutrality in no way prevents ISPs from altering, restricting, or enhancing packets based on origination, destination, or saturation.
    Net Neutrality is just a buzz word for a concept that is very much still being debated and defined. for you to take such a black and white rule to this fluid concept tells me not to trust you

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's what competition is all about. If one provider isn't meeting your needs then you go to a different provider.
    That's the issue...broadband access is a utility and prone to natural monopolies.

    100 Mbps is 100 Mbps.

    The barriers to entry are high

    It's not efficient for multiple companies to lay wire to the same neighborhood.

    Cable companies are natural monopolies and therefore shouldn't be able to use that power to squeeze both users and content providers.

    Ted Cruz is a demagogue bought and paid for by cable companies.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Except it's not a real competition because there's an artificially limited market place. When there are only one to three options within the market place, and a near impossible prospect for someone whose disastisfied with those few options to actually launch an alternative, you're not dealing with a legitimate free market where simple principles of competition self regulate the market place.
    Wow!!

    My bad. I was under the impression that there were more than 3 ISP's in the US.

    Maybe I'm just not understanding this whole thing. I know I can get my internet access through Cox, Centurylink, Dish, Verizon, Comcast and a bunch of others but maybe those aren't ISP's.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    Alternatives isn't what this topic is about.
    You aren't the decider of what is or is not on topic. Last I checked you weren't a mod. Alternatives are definitely on-topic to this discussion whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Wow!!

    My bad. I was under the impression that there were more than 3 ISP's in the US.

    Maybe I'm just not understanding this whole thing. I know I can get my internet access through Cox, Centurylink, Dish, Verizon, Comcast and a bunch of others but maybe those aren't ISP's.
    In some areas there are only two. In the area I am living at the choices are charter and Dish. That is it unless you want dial-up.

    EDIT: Sorry total of 3, forgot Direct-TV.

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