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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I appreciate the up front answer Rev. But in my mind, this is just unrealistic. It's no different than Ron Paul droning on about being completely isolationist or like those who declare we should just remove marriage from governent all together as their ONLY option as it relates to that issue. It's a great stance to have in a smokey room with a bunch of collegues waxing philisophical regarding policy, but has little real impact on the real world.

    In an ideal world I agree, that's my prefered method for that as well. I said in another thread, in a perfect sort of world I'd say the backbone infastructure which is even more monopolized then the telecoms would continue to be regulated and subsidized by the government, while the actual middle men (the ISPs) would be far less regulated and far more open and free with a lower bar to hurdle to gain entry into the market place.

    But it's just extremely unlikely given the importance to the telecoms those things you speak of are and how much influence they have over politicians on both sides of the aisles...there's little to no chance that we see the government legitimately bust up their monopolies. So simply saying that's the answer, and looking at no other alternative, is no different in my eyes than saying "just leave things the way they are"....because ultimatley, realistically, that's what will happen. There's little to no chance those psued-monopolies are busted, and if that doesn't happen and that's all we say we want to try, then the reality is that we just go with the status quo.

    Even if you look at now, Cruz hasn't said one word about busting up the telecoms. Not a single one that I've seen. All he's done is **** on the Democratic proposals and tacitly suggest we just need to maintain the status quo.

    And the status quo is not working. The status quo has been a steady movement away from net neutrality proposals, with clear reasons to see that the telecoms have every intent to continue that push.
    Very well said.

    What's really bothersome about this entire issue is how simple it is to arrive at the right solution, but how difficult it would be to actually do it. The right answer is to put ISP's in a new class, lightly regulated to ensure even competition while also allowing flexibility and innovation. In short, keep all the regulations roughly the way they are now, but add a requirement to ensure that all packets of a type are treated equally (ie a packet of video from Hulu isn't treated differently than a packet from netflix). Given a few weeks we could probably craft a rough draft on this forum. It's simple, non partisan, and essentially everyone with any background in IT is in agreement.

    Unfortunately it requires politicians to actually do something besides political grandstanding. It's really a sad indictment of our current political system when the fear of your opponent getting credit for accomplishing something outweighs the need to accomplish anything.

  2. #152
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Just keeping the status quo does NOT accomplish letting it "remain as it is". This is CLEARLY evidenced by the multitude of instances by various telecom providers over the past decade of them violating net neutrality principles, and their repeated attempts in recent years to argue for the ability to continue and expand upon such violations.
    OMG! Violating principles now.

    Sorry that argument doesn't fly.

    So unless you got something that clearly indicates otherwise, how about we remain within the confines of the context of what he said?
    His comment, in context of what he was speaking about clearly indicates he wants it to remain the same as it is now, you know, without the suggested status change into a utility.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    rest assured, no matter what happens, we can be guaranteed the government will **** it up to benefit themselves and those they protect.
    See, that's why I think this is such a ****ty situation at the moment...

    There's the government on one side, who because of the multi-actor reality of it, so takes well intentioned ideas about 4 steps too far in the name of power and doing "what's right", not to mention what benefits government....

    ....and on the other side there's mega corporations function as psuedo-monopolies, whose primary goal is to make as much money as possible by expending the least amount of possible, with little incentive to actually give a damn about the customers due to said psuedo-monopoly status.

    Basically, do you want the entity that will take it's time before it screws you and will tell you nice compliments while it's doing it....or do you want the one that'll just do it quick and rough and laugh in the process. Either way you're getting screwed, it's just how quick and in what way.

    Yay

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Some people yes, will support Obama no matter what. However, what is known now is that the corporations (ISPs) want the power to limit or flat out exclude websites on the internet. This is a reaction to corporation over-reaching.

    I don't for a second believe that the government classifying the internet as a utility will save "Net Neutrality" in itself. However, with corporations looking to do what they are doing is flat out wrong as well. Net Neutrality needs to be kept and corporations simply are not wanting to do that.
    That's what competition is all about. If one provider isn't meeting your needs then you go to a different provider.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This has gottan really nuts.

    People who are against Net Neutrality are against it for purely political reasons and nothing more.

    There is no reason to do away with Net Neutrality, to do so would be incredibly harmful to small businesses, entrepreneurs and innovation, things conservatives claim to champion.

    The only people, THE ONLY people who benefit from Net Neutrality being torn down is big corporations.

    There is no more transparent issue than this one that clearly shows what side many extremist and ignorant conservatives are on and that isn't regular folks.
    Cruz's position is against Obama's suggestion of classifying it as a Utility which there is no reason for.
    That is what this is about.
    There is no reason to classify it as a utility to obtain NN. None.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    I am quoting to that which I am responding. No matter how much you may complain about that, there is nothing wrong or intellectually dishonest about it.

    As to what you emboldened. It was irrelevant and as such I was not responding to it. That shouldn't be that hard for you to understand.
    Especially as it is dishonest to try and discuss that which the topic isn't about and not even being argued.
    Selective quoting, especially removing a clause is intellectually dishonest. For example, if I were to take your above quote.. and delete a few words that I disagreed with, I might end up with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    I am intellectually dishonest irrelevant and as such I shouldn't try and discuss that which is being argued.
    But I wouldn't do that because that would be intellectually dishonest.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's what competition is all about. If one provider isn't meeting your needs then you go to a different provider.
    The ISPs shouldn't have the power to do that in the first place. That is what this is about. If you are against net neutrality, and I'm not talking about the bill, then please go on record as saying so.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    OMG! Violating principles now.
    What? You don't get to have it both ways...you can't claim that net neutrality exists but then claim it's not a law/regulation and at the same time act like it's not a principle.

    "net neutrality" can't exist and be nothing at the same time.

    Net neutrality, in it's current state, is a concept made up of various principles. Principles that the telecoms over the past decade have routinely and continually shat upon.

    Pinch your nose all you want and tell console yourself into believing that it's debate, but sadly smiley's aren't actually intelligent though. Sorry you don't like the fact I've provided numerous examples of telecoms violating the ideals behind net neutrality, but that doesn't make it so.

    Throttling P2P traffic for reasons other than pure network congestion issues. A telecom that offers phone service purposefully throttling Vonage use. Providers blocking some short clip streaming video services while allowing others. Companies making court briefs with their desire to pick and choose what data can travel over their network and fighting for the ability to charge content providers additional money or have their services throttled. These are things that "clearly indicate otherwise" that the notion of network neutrality is healty, alive, and well currently and that simply keeping the status quo actually assures that we remain with an internet that is largley government by net neutrality ideals.

    You're absolutely correct...Ted Cruz has suggested he doesn't want it to be a utility and that the "way it is now" is fine. That's advocating to remain at the status quo. The status quo is moving away from an internet largely governmed by the ideals of net neutrality.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    That's what competition is all about. If one provider isn't meeting your needs then you go to a different provider.
    Except it's not a real competition because there's an artificially limited market place. When there are only one to three options within the market place, and a near impossible prospect for someone whose disastisfied with those few options to actually launch an alternative, you're not dealing with a legitimate free market where simple principles of competition self regulate the market place.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Selective quoting, especially removing a clause is intellectually dishonest.
    Wrong. It had nothing to do with what I was replying to.
    Period.
    You are simply wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    But I wouldn't do that because that would be intellectually dishonest.
    What you did was dishonest. You said I said something I did not say.
    Unlike you, what I did was quote the whole sentence I was responding to. That is not dishonest no matter how much you want to cry about it.

    If you do not understand the difference between your dishonesty in changing what I said and in trying to discuss that which the topic isn't about and not even being argued, and my quoting exactly what I was responding to, then you have a real problem that will always put you at a disadvantage.
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