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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    but isn't it interdependent and not completely in ones control once it passes the last native router on the isp?
    Yes, but the problem with not having some sort of regulation enforcing the concept of net neutrality is that any carrier could then prioritize their content over others.

    Not much involved in doing this:

    class class1


    bandwidth 2000


    queue-limit 40





    class class-default


    fair-queue 16


    queue-limit 20
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes, but the problem with not having some sort of regulation enforcing the concept of net neutrality is that any carrier could then prioritize their content over others.

    Not much involved in doing this:

    class class1


    bandwidth 2000


    queue-limit 40





    class class-default


    fair-queue 16


    queue-limit 20

    of course.

    That said, I am for actual net neutrality, not the democrats turning into a utility under the guise of net neutrality. Do you see the difference ?
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post


    Why don't you read what Cruz said and keep it in context of regulating it like a Utility (as Obama wants) like the telephone services were.
    Then maybe you will understand the point he was trying to make.
    Cruz is free to propose legislation that includes a new classification of carrier: ISPs. In this way we could ensure Net Neutrality and maintain a hands off regulatory approach. In fact, that's why we have congress. Legislators legislate, it's their job.

    Here's a good test. If anyone in congress on either party rails against the way something is being done without proposing any alternate legislation, then you can be assured that they're more interested in playing politics than creating solutions.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    I do not need to explain how that was an exaggeration.
    Hell it isn't even in-line with the restriction of Netflix and Comcast that was being misrepresented.

    well, since you say so....

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    of course.

    That said, I am for actual net neutrality, not the democrats turning into a utility under the guise of net neutrality. Do you see the difference ?
    I see the difference, but net neutrality is a hell of a lot closer to what Al Franken is proposing than what Ted Cruz is proposing. That all said I am very leery of a bunch of lawyers writing regulations concerning the internet when they obviously don't know what they are talking about (ie: Ted Cruz).

    This is exemplified by some of the arguments from ignorance on display in this thread. A lot of people seem to know the buzzwords without knowing what they actually mean. That's why I said earlier if you don't work as a Systems or Network Engineer / Admin, chances are you don't know what you are talking about in regards to net neutrality.

    Hell, if someone did, then why are they not working in IT then as it almost certainly pays more than their job probably does.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    of course.

    That said, I am for actual net neutrality, not the democrats turning into a utility under the guise of net neutrality. Do you see the difference ?
    What is "actual net neutrality"? The "democrats" option seems to be to term internet access as a utility and in doing so regulate that a service provider can't discriminate between different pieces of data; that you pay for the access, and what you do with it is your choice. What is the alternative route you're suggesting? It's hard to "see the difference" without something to compare the utility option to.

    I would MUCH rather an option to protect net neutrality OTHER than the government declaring it a "utility" and regulating it as such...but thus far I've yet to see anyone offer up a suggestion that is realistic or worth while. The two alternatives I've seen put forward is:

    1. Do nothing. Which to me is not a worth while option at all, seeing how we have repeated evidence over the past decade of internet providers going against net neutrality principles and actions on their part clearly showing a desire to further such a thing.

    2. Bust the psuedo-monopolies the ISPs have, which is likely as realistic as saying remove marriage from government entirely or ban all guns. It may sound good to ideologues who like such ideas, but the chance of either happening is as realistic as me ****ting out a rainbow that has a pot of gold at it's end. As much as the ISPs are fighting net neutrality, it'd look like a 3rd year old trying to be a boxer compared to how they'd react if their monopolies were being busted.

    One other poster keeps going on and on about net neutrality being good, but suggesting it shouldn't be done without turning things into a utility....but everytime he's questioned for his alternative method he refuses and deflects, NEVER answering. I'm hoping, since you're one who never seems to hide their opinion on a subject, that you'll at least give an explanation of how you think "net neutrality", the concept, can be protected and assured (or at least most likely assured)?

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So many arguments from ignorance on this subject. This is the same response I used in a different thread, but it applies here as well, so here goes:

    If you don't work as a Sr. Systems Admin, Sr. Network Admin, or Systems Engineer, then you have nothing to add to this debate and almost any argument you give will be based in ignorance.

    That said, I work as the Sr. System and Network Administrator for what is easily one of the highest traffic sites hosted in the Midwest (both in terms of bandwidth and page views). So I know my **** on this one.

    Basically, as wikipedia states Net Neutrality is:

    The principle that Internet service providers and governments should treat all data on the Internet equally, not discriminating or charging differentially by user, content, site, platform, application, type of attached equipment, or mode of communication.

    That does not mean that under the current system you cannot buy higher tiers of internet service. These higher tiers of internet service basically mean that:

    1. Internet bandwidth at the provider is shared by less customers than lower tiered service.

    2. Internet bandwidth has a lower latency than lower tiered service.

    3. Your connection is more reliable (due to higher redundancy at the carrier level).

    Those are all available to you under the current system. What the current system does not allow for is a carrier or provider to prioritize their content over other providers, or to censor their competitors. For example, without net neutrality, Time Warner could utilize QoS to ensure that any voip packets coming from their service has a much lower latency than say a Vonage customer on their network. So calls from a TWC customer would be crystal clear while a Vonage customer would have forced jitter due to high latency. The same would be true for their video streaming vs say, Amazon's. Hell it could go so far as stock trades being prioritized over certain networks while others get higher latencies. The potential for corruption is nearly endless absent Net Neutrality. Who benefits from that other than carriers lobbying congress?
    Your arrogance speaks to your ignorance of others and isn't going to gain you any traction.
    Your arrogance because of your field of endeavor also means nothing as it does not mean others do not know what NN is.
    And you only provided what wiki said, which is what anybody here can obtain, understand and provide. Which has nothing to do with your personal knowledge.
    You may be able to explain it in a more accurate way (unseen), may be able to provided a general description/definition (wiki) or in a way that some may understand better, it does not mean that one has to be employed as you are to explain or understand it.

    So while I speak of it in terms of "for-pay packet prioritization" and throttling for ease of understanding, your addition from wiki is really no different and has nothing to do with your personal knowledge. And not being employed as you are certainly does not mean that one has nothing to add to this discussion.
    So kindly spare us your arrogance.


    And as far as I am concerned, for those knowledgeable enough, while it may lack the monetary motivation, Samhain's explanation is far better than either mine or the one you provided from wiki.
    Net Neutrality means ISPs are not allowed to alter, restrict or enhance packets based on origination, destination, or saturation.





    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Net Neutrality means not only can Joe User not pay for more bandwidth or priority, but the ISP cannot stop him from hindering your bandwidth through over-use.
    While I find your description to be more accurate, Joe user would not be and is not restricted from purchasing higher bandwidth.





    And as to accuracy, packet prioritization and throttling happens now and will continue to happen regardless of any NN rules. It has too.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    when they obviously don't know what they are talking about (ie: Ted Cruz).
    SERIES OF TUBES!!!!

    Hell, if someone did, then why are they not working in IT then as it almost certainly pays more than their job probably does.
    After graduating the Cisco's Networking Academy program and getting my CCNA prior to college, and then going into Info Science there, ended up just finding myself really not enjoying the work. Though admittedly part of it was me just not being a good student through my first few years in college and not taking things seriously. All told, probably would've been better off staying down that path for the reason you say.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Why all of the distraction?
    Excuse me? What distraction?
    Do you not know what this topic is about?
    It is about what Cruz said. And there are folks here who refuse to understand what he said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    If you agree with the concept of net neutrality, then why aren't you on board with some alternate means of achieving it?
    That is not what this topic is about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    There's no reason why ISPs have to be classified as utilities.
    Exactly. Nough said.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I see the difference, but net neutrality is a hell of a lot closer to what Al Franken is proposing than what Ted Cruz is proposing. That all said I am very leery of a bunch of lawyers writing regulations concerning the internet when they obviously don't know what they are talking about (ie: Ted Cruz).

    This is exemplified by some of the arguments from ignorance on display in this thread. A lot of people seem to know the buzzwords without knowing what they actually mean. That's why I said earlier if you don't work as a Systems or Network Engineer / Admin, chances are you don't know what you are talking about in regards to net neutrality.

    Hell, if someone did, then why are they not working in IT then as it almost certainly pays more than their job probably does.


    I agree with the coporatist favortism shown ISP's etc, that tome form of net neutrality is needed. That said, you remove the perks for these government monopolies and make the playing feild equal then I'd say let it lie where it lays.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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