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Thread: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    It is accurate. Obviously if a consumer pays for twice the bandwidth they can get twice the number of packets. I figured that was self evident.

    We're talking about packets coming INTO the ISP from the internet at large. Net Neutrality means that the ISP is not allowed to prioritized those packets.


    Comcast can't say, oh.. hi competitor's movie service packet. I think I'll lose every 10th one of you.
    My point being if they can't prioritize them, they can't restrict them either.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE

    Everyone pays for bandwidth. Content providers pay for bandwidth, content consumers pay for bandwidth, ISPs pay for bandwidth. If someone doesn't have enough, they buy more. That's the way the internet has worked, that's the way it should work.

    Net neutrality is only dealing with the small part of the internet which connects you to the ISP. All of the rest of the internet will continue to function exactly the same way because it has to, it's a cooperative distributed network. Do you want ISPs to tell you how you can use your bandwidth? Or should we let the free market decide?
    If you watch a 2 hour NetFlix movie at 1080p then you stream about 8mb/s for that period of time. So to be able to stream NetFlix and also do other things on the net at the same time you buy a 10mb internet connection to accommodate your peak usage.

    Your actual consumption over the course of the day averages one twelfth that amount, so what you are ACTUALLY paying for in old school locked bandwidth terms is 830kps. If you actually paid for full-time locked internet pipe capable of streaming NetFlix you would pay many times what you pay now. If you paid the same amount for a locked 830kps then good luck streaming NetFlix.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 11-18-14 at 12:33 PM.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I'm not sure you understand what net neutrality actually is. Net Neutrality means that ISPs aren't allowed to do packet prioritization.
    Interesting.
    You quote me saying exactly what it is "(for pay packet prioritization)", then go on to say you are not sure I understand what net neutrality actually is.
    Strange to say the least.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    My point being if they can't prioritize them, they can't restrict them either.
    Most of the internet trunks are still ATM and subject to ATM QOS.
    ATM QoS Classes
    Decades ago when I was in School ATM had 5 classes, it looks like that is down to 4 now.
    Some traffic actually has a need for timely delivery, like voice traffic.
    You can look at a really noisy video image, but if the sound is messed up,
    it is unwatchable.

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I am not sure where they differ. Moreover, I don't know of a single IT professional that opposes Net Neutrality. It all falls under existing law unless the law is changed. The 1996 Telco Act specifically.
    I'm for health care reform... I am not for Obamacare and the Liberals idea of health care reform.

    I am also for Net Neutrality... However, I am not for the Liberals attempt to hijack the term "Net Neutrality" to empower unelected officials to manipulate winners and losers. IMO, the President's proposal opens the door to pricing, content, and bandwidth manipulation over time. Do we want to go down yet another slippery slope?

    We should all be for Net Neutrality... We must now decide who advocates the best plan for the future. Once again, when ever ANY politician speaks... Follow the money!


    Net-Neutrality-lobbying-lllustrator_0.jpg
    Wake Up America!

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    If you watch a 2 hour NetFlix movie at 1080p then you stream about 8mb/s for that period of time. So to be able to stream NetFlix and also do other things on the net at the same time you buy a 10mb internet connection to accommodate your peak usage.

    Your actual consumption over the course of the day averages one twelfth that amount, so what you are ACTUALLY paying for in old school locked bandwidth terms is 830kps. If you actually paid for full-time locked internet pipe capable of streaming NetFlix you would pay many times what you pay now. If you paid the same amount for a locked 830kps then good luck streaming NetFlix.
    As an example of this, the average AT&T broadband user consumes about 35GB of data per month, which translates to an average bandwidth usage of 13.5 kps, and the cap on AT&T DSL service (150gb total/month) equates to a 56kps modem running continuously for a month. QoS technology allows the end user to consume that in big chunks quickly with the assumption they won't be using that max bandwidth continuously.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post

    What an absurd statement.
    No it wasn't.


    That is called a Government overreach, which is an abuse of power.



    Nice spin, but no; They treated them as a "common carrier" when the Law specifically forbade doing so.


    I guess you do not understand that a Judge's dicta means absolutely nothing and has no affect.


    And don't get confused like others have as to any position I, Cruz or anyone else may have by opposing classifying them as Utilities.
    Opposition to classifying them as Utilities does not mean one is opposed to NN.
    Why all of the distraction? If you agree with the concept of net neutrality, then why aren't you on board with some alternate means of achieving it?

    There's no reason why ISPs have to be classified as utilities. Congress could also pass a new category of provider for ISPs which enforces net neutrality but otherwise maintains a hands-off approach to regulation. You'd have broad support from Silicon Valley and the tech industry and it would be the right way to handle it. Would you support that?

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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    If you watch a 2 hour NetFlix movie at 1080p then you stream about 8mb/s for that period of time. So to be able to stream NetFlix and also do other things on the net at the same time you buy a 10mb internet connection to accommodate your peak usage.

    Your actual consumption over the course of the day averages one twelfth that amount, so what you are ACTUALLY paying for in old school locked bandwidth terms is 830kps. If you actually paid for full-time locked internet pipe capable of streaming NetFlix you would pay many times what you pay now. If you paid the same amount for a locked 830kps then good luck streaming NetFlix.
    This is nonsensical.

    A home user is paying for tier 3 service. You don't have any dedicated bandwidth, but rather you are sharing your connection with other people on the same segment (basically your neighborhood), and you are paying less because of that. Moreover, you are not taking into account IP Multicasting and variability in streaming bandwidth (you will very rarely ever get 1080p for the entirety of a movie). An ISP provision's bandwidth using the same model as any other IP network.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    As an example of this, the average AT&T broadband user consumes about 35GB of data per month, which translates to an average bandwidth usage of 13.5 kps, and the cap on AT&T DSL service (150gb total/month) equates to a 56kps modem running continuously for a month. QoS technology allows the end user to consume that in big chunks quickly with the assumption they won't be using that max bandwidth continuously.
    That has nothing to do with QoS. QoS means I tag a packet at either the layer 2 or layer 7 level and prioritize that packet above other packets. For example, on a corporate network I would create a QoS class for voip traffic (IP Phone System) and prioritize those packets over other traffic that isn't so sensitive to latency.
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    Re: Ted Cruz Hits Back At Al Franken On Net Neutrality

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    If you watch a 2 hour NetFlix movie at 1080p then you stream about 8mb/s for that period of time. So to be able to stream NetFlix and also do other things on the net at the same time you buy a 10mb internet connection to accommodate your peak usage.

    Your actual consumption over the course of the day averages one twelfth that amount, so what you are ACTUALLY paying for in old school locked bandwidth terms is 830kps. If you actually paid for full-time locked internet pipe capable of streaming NetFlix you would pay many times what you pay now. If you paid the same amount for a locked 830kps then good luck streaming NetFlix.
    Again, you're missing the point. You're paying for that bandwidth. If you watch Netflix, or Hulu, or Amazon Prime, or host a website.. it doesn't matter. All of those packets should be treated the same. How an ISP handles peak vs average bandwidth is entirely up to the agreement between you and the ISP. An ISP can throttle it's biggest data users without violating net neutrality.

    What we're talking about is throttling down one provider like Hulu, but throttling up another provider like NetFlix. And all of the traffic is travelling over the same exact network.

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