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Thread: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It wasn't a trillion dollars, a large portion of money was lower taxes, and it is credited with creating over a million jobs.
    Then you are using different standards as to job creation. Clearly it will take more than 50 people to construct this pipeline. Thousands, in fact. But the opponents keep using the number 50. Infrastructure jobs only last until the infrastructure that is being funded is finished. When the funds run out, so do the jobs, so I don't know where this million permanent stimulus jobs number comes from.

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Then you are using different standards as to job creation. Clearly it will take more than 50 people to construct this pipeline. Thousands, in fact. But the opponents keep using the number 50. Infrastructure jobs only last until the infrastructure that is being funded is finished. When the funds run out, so do the jobs, so I don't know where this million permanent stimulus jobs number comes from.
    50 is the permanent jobs created through the pipeline. Job creation of the pipeline is what is being sold to the public. Those temporary stimulus projects provided obvious long term benefits, a renovated school, a renovated bridge or roadways.

    What is the long term benefit of the pipeline other than those 50 jobs? What is the long term cost?

    I personally think Keystone is a dumb thing to fall on your sword over for environmentalist. That stuff is going to be refined and sold. At the same time, acting like Keystone is some "jobs bill" by Republicans is just crap. It's Congress basically using imminent domain for big oil. Congrats, you have now supported a bill to take large amounts of private property from people for 50 permanent jobs.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    50 is the permanent jobs created through the pipeline. Job creation of the pipeline is what is being sold to the public. Those temporary stimulus projects provided obvious long term benefits, a renovated school, a renovated bridge or roadways.

    What is the long term benefit of the pipeline other than those 50 jobs? What is the long term cost?
    Increased oil supply.

    I personally think Keystone is a dumb thing to fall on your sword over for environmentalist. That stuff is going to be refined and sold. At the same time, acting like Keystone is some "jobs bill" by Republicans is just crap. It's Congress basically using imminent domain for big oil. Congrats, you have now supported a bill to take large amounts of private property from people for 50 permanent jobs.
    I don't support it for the jobs, I support it for the fuel

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Increased oil supply.

    I don't support it for the jobs, I support it for the fuel
    I thought the goal was to be energy independent? More foreign oil won't help that goal. It is more likely to raise prices than lower them, right now there is a glut of Canadian oil in the Midwest. That will change with the XL and those refiners are doing it for export.

    Keystone XL is an export pipeline. The Port Arthur, Texas, refiners at the end of its route are focused on expanding exports to Europe, and Latin America. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
    •Valero, the key customer for crude oil from Keystone XL, has explicitly detailed an export strategy to its investors. Because Valero’s Port Arthur refinery is in a Foreign Trade Zone, the company can carry out its strategy tax-free.
    •In a shrinking U.S. market, Keystone XL is not needed. Since the project was announced, the oil industry acknowledges that higher fuel economy standards and slow economic growth mean declining U.S. oil demand, even as domestic production is booming. Oil from Keystone XL will therefore displace American crude from new, “unconventional” domestic fields in Texas or North Dakota.

    “To issue a presidential permit for the Keystone XL, the Administration must find that the pipeline serves the national interest,” said Stephen Kretzmann, executive director of Oil Change International. “An honest assessment shows that rather than serving U.S. interests, Keystone XL serves only the interests of tar sands producers and shippers, and a few Gulf Coast refiners aiming to export the oil.”
    Report: Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed - Oil Change InternationalOil Change International

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I thought the goal was to be energy independent? More foreign oil won't help that goal. It is more likely to raise prices than lower them, right now there is a glut of Canadian oil in the Midwest. That will change with the XL and those refiners are doing it for export.



    Report: Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed - Oil Change InternationalOil Change International
    I don't mind being somewhat dependent upon a country like Canada for our energy. Plus the pipeline is sort of co-dependence. They drill, we refine. That's a good partnership with about the best ally the US has

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Just because its been done in the past does not mean its a smart tactic...
    The GOP could easily impeach in the House and only need to pick up 8 Dem votes to convict in the Senate, which is ridiculously easy in this case since Dems like Landrieu, etc. are all under the same orders from the API to pass Keystone.

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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    The GOP could easily impeach in the House
    I think your a little confused about how impeachment works.... They are going to impeach Obama because the Senate didnt pass a bill you like?

    and only need to pick up 8 Dem votes to convict in the Senate,
    What charges are you bringing up? "The Senate didnt pass Keystone"? Thats not illegal, thats called the legislative process. Just cuz you didnt get enough votes based on Senate rules is not an impeachable offense.

    which is ridiculously easy in this case since Dems like Landrieu, etc. are all under the same orders from the API to pass Keystone.
    Which is not a impeachable offense


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    Re: Senate nears 60 on Keystone

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think your a little confused about how impeachment works.... They are going to impeach Obama because the Senate didnt pass a bill you like?
    I don't like the bill--I'm 100% opposed to it, as anyone who had an elementary school understanding of eminent domain and economics should.

    I was just pointing out that pols like mcconnell, cruz, etc. are under direct orders from the API to pass the bill at any cost, and the API could remove them from Congress for failing to do their job. So it makes sense that the GOP pols in Congress would do everything they could to pass the bill, up to and including impeachment followed by conviction.

    And the GOP has the votes to impeach in the House, and only needs a pick up of 8 Dems in the Senate who are also under API orders. Should be a cinch.

    Qualifications for an "impeachable offense" are irrelevant in the US. Lobbyist orders, not Constitutional considerations, determine impeachment.

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