Obama on Moms Who Stay Home to Raise Kids: 'That's Not a Choice We Want Americans to

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

sangha said:

Actually, here is a fuller and more complete quote


emphasis mine

He is not saying he doesn't want americans to choose to stay home. He's saying the choice should not be between cheap and inadequate day care or stop working and stay home to take care of the children

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With the more completed quote, he is saying more than yu are indicating. THere are at least two choices being discussed. The choice between poor or good day care... and the choice between a mom (typically) staying home or putting their child in day care. He believes that the mom staying home and the choice of poor day care are both choices we don't want a mom to have to make.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

sangha said:

Actually, here is a fuller and more complete quote


emphasis mine

He is not saying he doesn't want americans to choose to stay home. He's saying the choice should not be between cheap and inadequate day care or stop working and stay home to take care of the children

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Sounds to me like he wants to create standardized testing and federal oversight of daycare standards. As long as your kid comes home alive and unmolested, the day care center has done its job.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

buck said:

He believes that the mom staying home and the choice of poor day care are both choices we don't want a mom to have to make.

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Nope. Again the complete quote is necessary:

"Sometimes, someone, usually Mom, leaves the workplace to stay home with the kids, which then leaves her earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result."

I added the bold to point out that there is another factor that needs to be considered: If the choice did NOT leave the woman earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result, then the issue would be a whole different ball of wax.

The real issue here is that there is a penalty for staying home with the kids. You can't simply ignore that portion of what he said because it's massively important.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

Nope. Again the complete quote is necessary:

"Sometimes, someone, usually Mom, leaves the workplace to stay home with the kids, which then leaves her earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result."

I added the bold to point out that there is another factor that needs to be considered: If the choice did NOT leave the woman earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result, then the issue would be a whole different ball of wax.

The real issue here is that there is a penalty for staying home with the kids. You can't simply ignore that portion of what he said because it's massively important.

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Such a person is not being penalized. They just are not being financially rewarded. To be penalized, they would have to be losing something they have earned. They have not earned the money not working and they are not entitled to money for not working.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

Nope. Again the complete quote is necessary:

"Sometimes, someone, usually Mom, leaves the workplace to stay home with the kids, which then leaves her earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result."

I added the bold to point out that there is another factor that needs to be considered: If the choice did NOT leave the woman earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result, then the issue would be a whole different ball of wax.

The real issue here is that there is a penalty for staying home with the kids. You can't simply ignore that portion of what he said because it's massively important.

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You and Sangha are making too much sense for the die-hard anti-Obama people on this site. I tried to discuss the full context earlier, they just refuse to read or something.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

buck said:

With the more completed quote, he is saying more than yu are indicating. THere are at least two choices being discussed. The choice between poor or good day care... and the choice between a mom (typically) staying home or putting their child in day care. He believes that the mom staying home and the choice of poor day care are both choices we don't want a mom to have to make.

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Yes, when he says "Too often parents have no choice but to put their kids in cheaper day care" it means "they have the choice of putting them in good day care"

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

Nope. Again the complete quote is necessary:

"Sometimes, someone, usually Mom, leaves the workplace to stay home with the kids, which then leaves her earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result."

I added the bold to point out that there is another factor that needs to be considered: If the choice did NOT leave the woman earning a lower wage for the rest of her life as a result, then the issue would be a whole different ball of wax.

The real issue here is that there is a penalty for staying home with the kids. You can't simply ignore that portion of what he said because it's massively important.

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You are absolutely correct. I thought of putting that in my post.. but figured that was obvious. Sorry, that it wasn't.

The fact remains.. There atre two choices involved. The choice of poor or good daycare... and the choice of the mom having to stay home and earn less.

My original point was, and this was backed by studies, children do better at home then at daycare and single parents don't have much of a choice on leaving the workforce -

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Declan said:

Such a person is not being penalized. They just are not being financially rewarded. To be penalized, they would have to be losing something they have earned. They have not earned the money not working and they are not entitled to money for not working.

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Having your earning potential reduced for taking care of your kids (which is earning a multitude of skills which are readily translatable to a great many jobs) because employers do not give enough credit to those who have earned these skills is a penalty.

She is earning a lower wage for the rest of her life. That is a penalty.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

sangha said:

Yes, when he says "Too often parents have no choice but to put their kids in cheaper day care" it means "they have the choice of putting them in good day care"

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And when he says the choice of a mom staying home to take care of kids, he obviously only means the choice of poor daycare - which is what you apparently believe.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Declan said:

Such a person is not being penalized. They just are not being financially rewarded. To be penalized, they would have to be losing something they have earned. They have not earned the money not working and they are not entitled to money for not working.

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Well that's because you see being gainfully employed as being the only form of quantafiable 'hard work' someone can do. I'll have you know I work my ass off. It just doesn't matter.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

buck said:

You are absolutely correct. I thought of putting that in my post.. but figured that was obvious. Sorry, that it wasn't.

The fact remains.. There atre two choices involved. The choice of poor or good daycare... and the choice of the mom having to stay home and earn less.

My original point was, and this was backed by studies, children do better at home then at daycare and single parents don't have much of a choice on leaving the workforce -

Click to expand...

ANd to expand the quote, here's the two paragraphs prior to the one being discussed

Without paid leave, when a baby arrives or an aging parent needs help, workers have to make painful decisions about whether they can afford to be there when their families need them most. Many women can’t even get a paid day off to give birth to their child. I mean, there are a lot of companies that still don’t provide maternity leave. Of course, dads should be there, too. So let’s make this happen for women and for men, and make our economy stronger. (Applause.) We’ve got to broaden our laws for family leave.

Moms and dads deserve a great place to drop their kids off every day that doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg. We need better childcare, daycare, early childhood education policies. (Applause.) In many states, sending your child to daycare costs more than sending them to a public university.

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it's obvious that his remarks were not limited to single parent families.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Aunt Spiker said:

Well that's because you see being gainfully employed as being the only form of quantafiable 'hard work' someone can do. I'll have you know I work my ass off. It just doesn't matter.

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Stay-at-home parents develop management skills, multitasking skills, critical thinking skills, and incredible time-management skills, just to name a few, but certainly not all, of the abilities they will bring to the table for any future employer.

But when employers (typically men who have never done the work of child-raising) look at a resume, they discount the plethora of skills that any stay-at-home parent acquires, thus they do not reward the employee for the acquisition of these skills. That's the problem. And it's why I mentioned the inherent sexism in our society.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

The "most natural" would be a hunting and gathering society with no such thing as jobs at all.

Why the **** would we want to regress to the idiocy that is "most natural"?

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Non-sequitur.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

buck said:

You are absolutely correct. I thought of putting that in my post.. but figured that was obvious. Sorry, that it wasn't.

The fact remains.. There atre two choices involved. The choice of poor or good daycare... and the choice of the mom having to stay home and earn less.

My original point was, and this was backed by studies, children do better at home then at daycare and single parents don't have much of a choice on leaving the workforce -

Click to expand...

There are two choices, but both are choices that we do not want people to make. We do not want people to have to choose crappy cheap daycares AND we don't want people to have to choose to have a permanent reduction in earning potential in order to stay home with the kids.


We DO want people to have good daycares to choose from and we DO want people to have the ability to choose to stay home without having to face a permanent penalty for doing so.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Paleocon said:

Non-sequitur.

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Not at all. You were treating "most natural" as though it was preferable instead of the giant pile of horse**** that it actually is. I illustrated the flaws of such a position by pointing out that that which is the "most natural" is completely ****ing worthless.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

sangha said:

it's obvious that his remarks were not limited to single parent families.

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Exactly right. Which is why I said that way above, when you decided to stick your nose in.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

There are two choices, but both are choices that we do not want people to make. We do not want people to have to choose crappy cheap daycares AND we don't want people to have to choose to have a permanent reduction in earning potential in order to stay home with the kids.


We DO want people to have good daycares to choose from and we DO want people to have the ability to choose to stay home without having to face a permanent penalty for doing so.

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I see nothing wrong with the second choice. We make sacrifices for our children. Children being at home and cared for by the parent(s) is best. Far better than daycare, as studies have shown.

It is a simple fact: Someone leaving the workforce and not having that experience on their resume, will hurt earnings potential in most cases and there is nothing, to me, wrong with that.

I don't believe that the government should be involved in the funding of choices and protecting people from the choices they might choose to make or encouraging behavior that is ultimately harmful to society (encouraging the placement of kids to be cared for by strangers). That's just me, though.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

Not at all. You were treating "most natural" as though it was preferable instead of the giant pile of horse**** that it actually is. I illustrated the flaws of such a position by pointing out that that which is the "most natural" is completely ****ing worthless.

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We've been over this before. You know what "natural" means in Thomist philosophy.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Tucker Case said:

Having your earning potential reduced for taking care of your kids (which is earning a multitude of skills which are readily translatable to a great many jobs) because employers do not give enough credit to those who have earned these skills is a penalty.

She is earning a lower wage for the rest of her life. That is a penalty.

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Men do it too, but I see you not defending them. Either way, it is not a penalty. It is a choice. She could abort the child but chooses not to so she or he has to deal with the consequences of her choice.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Aunt Spiker said:

Well that's because you see being gainfully employed as being the only form of quantafiable 'hard work' someone can do. I'll have you know I work my ass off. It just doesn't matter.

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No I see working in exchange for a paycheck requires work in exchange for a paycheck. I don't care how many hours you spend volunteering to your child or to Habitat for Humanity--you are volunteering. No employer should have to pay for that which they do not value any more than any person should be required to have surgery by a doctor who just took a decade off to home school their children and is looking to get back into the swing of a career.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Declan said:

Men do it too, but I see you not defending them. Either way, it is not a penalty. It is a choice. She could abort the child but chooses not to so she or he has to deal with the consequences of her choice.

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So you are admitting, here, that having children and being a stay at home parent is a matter of penalties and consequences.

My husband and I had children together - last I looked. What consequences is he dealing with for having children?

Well - he was in the military and retired out medically with benefits - so he has people willing to jump through hoops to help him out because he's a disabled veteran. Him being in the military and deploying often is part of the reason why I became a stay at home parent.

Now that he's out and *unable to work* I have to find employment to support the family because he can no longer do so. Grantid - I don't need to equal his pay. Heck, a job that pays $9.00/hr would be sufficient to fill in the financial gap of what his retirement pay does not cover.

Only, I'm unable. I'm not a stay at home parent anymore - kids are all older - he's no longer in the military. We're an aging family now. But no one wants to hire someone who put country and family first for years. Oh they'll hire him in a heartbeat. But me? No.

There's the imbalance: the social view - society doesn't value the stay at home parent or take us seriously as participants in society. Heck - even you said that it's an acceptable 'consequence' of having children and caring for them adequately.

And further - do you really think stat at home dads are given the cold shoulder when returning to work? It would be interesting to see research on that because i have a feeling that they're not. Society's further jilt, here, is assuming men don't take on the at-home parenting responsibilities. Men aren't seen as 'parents' when they apply for a job. Women, by default, will be assumed to 'have kids' or will be 'potentially pregnant' in the near future - so we're always given a more critical eye and doubt.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Women who are't even mom's are paid less than men, so I don't see the connection that we are all paid less because we leave work to take care of kids.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

SheWolf said:

Women who are't even mom's are paid less than men, so I don't see the connection that we are all paid less because we leave work to take care of kids.

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A lot of employers will look at women as potential liabilities because of possible children in the future. "If I hire her - she'll have to take maternity leave / time off . . . can I accept that?" - Women are a risk in people's eyes no matter what.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Declan said:

No I see working in exchange for a paycheck requires work in exchange for a paycheck. I don't care how many hours you spend volunteering to your child or to Habitat for Humanity--you are volunteering. No employer should have to pay for that which they do not value any more than any person should be required to have surgery by a doctor who just took a decade off to home school their children and is looking to get back into the swing of a career.

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Employers actually do like to hear about volunteering and so forth - that does have value, especially if skills needed for said work would be an asset. Why is it that you think they don't?

Interestingly enough - people hear "I've been a stay at home mother" and assume I do all sorts of stuff like volunteer for the PTA and do random child-related things.

Want to hear what I have done?

I run a publishing business - manufactured jewelry - am a freelance writer and copy-editor - I renovated a home and increased its value by 33% - I attended college fulltime and maintained a near perfect GPA. In the last year I wrote and published 2 novels.

Stay at home does not equal 'being a nobody'. I've done more in my life in the last 10 years than most people will accomplish in their lifetime.

But . . . standing in a checkout lane at the Piggly Wiggly somehow equates to being 'more important than all that'. Hell - if I could I'd volunteer to do that to just to have a 'real job' to put on my resume.

Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

Aunt Spiker said:

Interestingly enough - people hear "I've been a stay at home mother" and assume I do all sorts of stuff like volunteer for the PTA and do random child-related things.

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And if employers thought that would help your value to the company, people with those experiences would have a premium. They typically don't - at least in most jobs. So, maybe the value you place on that does not match the value brought to an employer.