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Thread: Obama on Moms Who Stay Home to Raise Kids: 'That's Not a Choice We Want Americans to

  1. #211
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just don't agree with it. However I do agree that the moral bankruptcy of society has caused the increase in out of wedlock births and the increase of women being abandoned and left to struggle financially raising children. But by having so many government subsidies for single mothers, it doesn't hinder the bad behavior but rather encourages it because mothers are able to get by with government taking the place of the father. If benefits had greater limits on them and stronger laws forcing men to take responsibility for the children they have fathered, you would see women learning to follow the directions on their birth control and men thinking twice about having sex unprotected. While it is impossible to legislate morality, it doesn't help when the government voids personal responsibility.
    Morality is subjective. There are some objectively speaking things that provide a more successful outcome, more positive outcome, statistically, but it really isn't about specific morals but rather general values of society and not being likely to be a continuing negative burden on society due to unwillingness to change your circumstances rather than not being able to.

    As for the rest, you nor others are truly able to show the majority of single mothers want to be that way. Most don't.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #212
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Are two coaches the exact same? Are your friends going to be just alike? Are your friends going to be like other people's friends? How about teachers? Kids' friends? People in media your children are most exposed to compared to other people's children? Types of media your children prefer compared to others?

    I'm not saying that parents aren't a huge influence on their children but there are still many more influences in a child's life, more people contributing to who they are or become than just parents. And there is nothing wrong with that for most children/people.
    Influence is not the same thing as raising a child. I don't think anyone would have an issue with "the village you are raised in has an influence your upbringing."
    Last edited by Taylor; 11-03-14 at 01:07 PM.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Influence is not the same thing as raising a child.
    It all goes into how a child is raised. We do not (for the most part) raise our children in bubbles with little to no outside influences. Especially now. Children spend at least half as much time with non parental figures during childhood as with their parents, some more time. Between school, parents working, extra activities, church, and parents wanting to have time for themselves, which is good for a healthy intimate relationship, there is a lot of time away from one or more parents for children. Especially after factoring out sleep time.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It all goes into how a child is raised. We do not (for the most part) raise our children in bubbles with little to no outside influences. Especially now.
    I doubt anyone would disagree that there aren't "outside influences." This is why we choose to move to a certain state or certain part of the city to raise children. It's a leap, however, to claim that these outside influences are "raising" children.

    Would you similarly claim that it takes a tv and video game system to raise a child? These seem to have an "influence" as well. I would imagine that most teachers, coaches, etc. would be among the first to say that they are NOT trying to raise your child.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I doubt anyone would disagree that there aren't "outside influences." This is why we choose to move to a certain state or certain part of the city to raise children. It's a leap, however, to claim that these outside influences are "raising" children.

    Would you similarly claim that it takes a tv and video game system to raise a child? These seem to have an "influence" as well. I would imagine that most teachers, coaches, etc. would be among the first to say that they are NOT trying to raise your child.
    Some parents allow tv and or video games to raise their children. Those things do actually also help to raise your children as well though.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Are two coaches the exact same? Are your friends going to be just alike? Are your friends going to be like other people's friends? How about teachers? Kids' friends? People in media your children are most exposed to compared to other people's children? Types of media your children prefer compared to others?

    I'm not saying that parents aren't a huge influence on their children but there are still many more influences in a child's life, more people contributing to who they are or become than just parents. And there is nothing wrong with that for most children/people.
    An interesting take on this idea is a British series called Seven-Up which was based on the Jesuit idea of "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man". It documents children from the age of seven, beginning in the 1960's, and the last episode was when they were 56, two years ago.

    As this fascinating series shows, those first seven years are essential to the development of the child, and what we see is that they really haven't changed all that much since they were seven. The essentials of who they are remain all those years later. We also learn also that a two parent family, with all the love and direction that implies, is essential for the development from child to adult, and if it doesn't happen the consequences will be socially negative, and will ultimately change that village. Once they are past the age of seven the parents have less influence and the 'village' more. Of course this is necessary and normal in any social environment.

    It has been said that adults are only children who know how to behave in public, and this series seems to prove that point. The child in the adult is always visible to viewer.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/c...ry-so-far.html

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Some parents allow tv and or video games to raise their children. Those things do actually also help to raise your children as well though.
    No, it reflects on how the parents have decided to raise their children. As does how they choose to expose their children to any outside influence.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    An interesting take on this idea is a British series called Seven-Up which was based on the Jesuit idea of "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man". It documents children from the age of seven, beginning in the 1960's, and the last episode was when they were 56, two years ago.

    As this fascinating series shows, those first seven years are essential to the development of the child, and what we see is that they really haven't changed all that much since they were seven. The essentials of who they are remain all those years later. We also learn also that a two parent family, with all the love and direction that implies, is essential for the development from child to adult, and if it doesn't happen the consequences will be socially negative, and will ultimately change that village. Once they are past the age of seven the parents have less influence and the 'village' more. Of course this is necessary and normal in any social environment.

    It has been said that adults are only children who know how to behave in public, and this series seems to prove that point. The child in the adult is always visible to viewer.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/c...ry-so-far.html
    And we still have many of those influences in our children's lives that I mentioned before age 7. Plenty of extended families out there. I'm not the only one who has let a friend take my baby less than 6 months so my husband and I could have a night for ourselves. Children start school before 7.

    But I'm willing to bet they didn't thoroughly study all potential family types though. There are lots of single parents out there who raised their children well.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Some parents allow tv and or video games to raise their children. Those things do actually also help to raise your children as well though.
    It helps the parents more than it helps the children. Children need parental contact, and TV is a poor substitute.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And we still have many of those influences in our children's lives that I mentioned before age 7. Plenty of extended families out there. I'm not the only one who has let a friend take my baby less than 6 months so my husband and I could have a night for ourselves. Children start school before 7.

    But I'm willing to bet they didn't thoroughly study all potential family types though. There are lots of single parents out there who raised their children well.
    I've provided a link so you can get an idea of the types involved in the series.

    Yes, there are plenty of single parents who have done a great job, but a study of any jail population suggests that a two parent family does better.

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