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Thread: Obama on Moms Who Stay Home to Raise Kids: 'That's Not a Choice We Want Americans to

  1. #161
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    You are absolutely correct. I thought of putting that in my post.. but figured that was obvious. Sorry, that it wasn't.

    The fact remains.. There atre two choices involved. The choice of poor or good daycare... and the choice of the mom having to stay home and earn less.

    My original point was, and this was backed by studies, children do better at home then at daycare and single parents don't have much of a choice on leaving the workforce -
    ANd to expand the quote, here's the two paragraphs prior to the one being discussed
    Without paid leave, when a baby arrives or an aging parent needs help, workers have to make painful decisions about whether they can afford to be there when their families need them most. Many women can’t even get a paid day off to give birth to their child. I mean, there are a lot of companies that still don’t provide maternity leave. Of course, dads should be there, too. So let’s make this happen for women and for men, and make our economy stronger. (Applause.) We’ve got to broaden our laws for family leave.

    Moms and dads deserve a great place to drop their kids off every day that doesn’t cost them an arm and a leg. We need better childcare, daycare, early childhood education policies. (Applause.) In many states, sending your child to daycare costs more than sending them to a public university.
    it's obvious that his remarks were not limited to single parent families.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well that's because you see being gainfully employed as being the only form of quantafiable 'hard work' someone can do. I'll have you know I work my ass off. It just doesn't matter.
    Stay-at-home parents develop management skills, multitasking skills, critical thinking skills, and incredible time-management skills, just to name a few, but certainly not all, of the abilities they will bring to the table for any future employer.

    But when employers (typically men who have never done the work of child-raising) look at a resume, they discount the plethora of skills that any stay-at-home parent acquires, thus they do not reward the employee for the acquisition of these skills. That's the problem. And it's why I mentioned the inherent sexism in our society.
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The "most natural" would be a hunting and gathering society with no such thing as jobs at all.

    Why the **** would we want to regress to the idiocy that is "most natural"?
    Non-sequitur.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    You are absolutely correct. I thought of putting that in my post.. but figured that was obvious. Sorry, that it wasn't.

    The fact remains.. There atre two choices involved. The choice of poor or good daycare... and the choice of the mom having to stay home and earn less.

    My original point was, and this was backed by studies, children do better at home then at daycare and single parents don't have much of a choice on leaving the workforce -
    There are two choices, but both are choices that we do not want people to make. We do not want people to have to choose crappy cheap daycares AND we don't want people to have to choose to have a permanent reduction in earning potential in order to stay home with the kids.


    We DO want people to have good daycares to choose from and we DO want people to have the ability to choose to stay home without having to face a permanent penalty for doing so.
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Non-sequitur.
    Not at all. You were treating "most natural" as though it was preferable instead of the giant pile of horse**** that it actually is. I illustrated the flaws of such a position by pointing out that that which is the "most natural" is completely ****ing worthless.
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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    it's obvious that his remarks were not limited to single parent families.
    Exactly right. Which is why I said that way above, when you decided to stick your nose in.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    There are two choices, but both are choices that we do not want people to make. We do not want people to have to choose crappy cheap daycares AND we don't want people to have to choose to have a permanent reduction in earning potential in order to stay home with the kids.


    We DO want people to have good daycares to choose from and we DO want people to have the ability to choose to stay home without having to face a permanent penalty for doing so.
    I see nothing wrong with the second choice. We make sacrifices for our children. Children being at home and cared for by the parent(s) is best. Far better than daycare, as studies have shown.

    It is a simple fact: Someone leaving the workforce and not having that experience on their resume, will hurt earnings potential in most cases and there is nothing, to me, wrong with that.

    I don't believe that the government should be involved in the funding of choices and protecting people from the choices they might choose to make or encouraging behavior that is ultimately harmful to society (encouraging the placement of kids to be cared for by strangers). That's just me, though.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Not at all. You were treating "most natural" as though it was preferable instead of the giant pile of horse**** that it actually is. I illustrated the flaws of such a position by pointing out that that which is the "most natural" is completely ****ing worthless.
    We've been over this before. You know what "natural" means in Thomist philosophy.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Having your earning potential reduced for taking care of your kids (which is earning a multitude of skills which are readily translatable to a great many jobs) because employers do not give enough credit to those who have earned these skills is a penalty.

    She is earning a lower wage for the rest of her life. That is a penalty.
    Men do it too, but I see you not defending them. Either way, it is not a penalty. It is a choice. She could abort the child but chooses not to so she or he has to deal with the consequences of her choice.

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    Re: Obama doesn't want Moms staying home to raise their kids. Wants the state to do i

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well that's because you see being gainfully employed as being the only form of quantafiable 'hard work' someone can do. I'll have you know I work my ass off. It just doesn't matter.
    No I see working in exchange for a paycheck requires work in exchange for a paycheck. I don't care how many hours you spend volunteering to your child or to Habitat for Humanity--you are volunteering. No employer should have to pay for that which they do not value any more than any person should be required to have surgery by a doctor who just took a decade off to home school their children and is looking to get back into the swing of a career.

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