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Thread: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

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    The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    The Obama administration has quietly approved a substantial expansion of the terrorist watchlist system, authorizing a secret process that requires neither “concrete facts” nor “irrefutable evidence” to designate an American or foreigner as a terrorist, according to a key government document obtained by The Intercept.
    The “March 2013 Watchlisting Guidance,” a 166-page document issued last year by the National Counterterrorism Center, spells out the government’s secret rules for putting individuals on its main terrorist database, as well as the no fly list and the selectee list, which triggers enhanced screening at airports and border crossings. The new guidelines allow individuals to be designated as representatives of terror organizations without any evidence they are actually connected to such organizations, and it gives a single White House official the unilateral authority to place entire “categories” of people the government is tracking onto the no fly and selectee lists. It broadens the authority of government officials to “nominate” people to the watchlists based on what is vaguely described as “fragmentary information.” It also allows for dead people to be watchlisted.

    Over the years, the Obama and Bush Administrations have fiercely resisted disclosing the criteria for placing names on the databases—though the guidelines are officially labeled as unclassified. In May, Attorney General Eric Holder even invoked the state secrets privilege to prevent watchlisting guidelines from being disclosed in litigation launched by an American who was on the no fly list. In an affidavit, Holder called them a “clear roadmap” to the government’s terrorist-tracking apparatus, adding: “The Watchlisting Guidance, although unclassified, contains national security information that, if disclosed … could cause significant harm to national security.”

    “Instead of a watchlist limited to actual, known terrorists, the government has built a vast system based on the unproven and flawed premise that it can predict if a person will commit a terrorist act in the future,” says Hina Shamsi, the head of the ACLU’s National Security Project. “On that dangerous theory, the government is secretly blacklisting people as suspected terrorists and giving them the impossible task of proving themselves innocent of a threat they haven’t carried out.” Shamsi, who reviewed the document, added, “These criteria should never have been kept secret.”


    Read more @: THE SECRET GOVERNMENT RULEBOOK FOR LABELING YOU A TERRORIST

    Wanna be labeled a terrorist? Wanna know the criteria? Wanna know what evidence the government has to provide? Really they dont have to provide any evidence. They dont have to prove your connected to a terrorist organization. They basically have free will to label anyone a terrorist, just cuz


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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: THE SECRET GOVERNMENT RULEBOOK FOR LABELING YOU A TERRORIST

    Wanna be labeled a terrorist? Wanna know the criteria? Wanna know what evidence the government has to provide? Really they dont have to provide any evidence. They dont have to prove your connected to a terrorist organization. They basically have free will to label anyone a terrorist, just cuz [/FONT]
    hysterics only discredit your argument.


    For those of you who want to read more, it looks like the database they are discussing is TIDE, which is maintained by the NCTC.

    The TIDE basic factsheet.


    What types of conduct warrant inclusion in TIDE?

    As of 1 August 2014 Federal agencies nominate individuals for inclusion in TIDE based
    on evaluations of intelligence and law enforcement terrorism
    information. A non-exclusive list of types of conduct that will
    warrant both entry into TIDE and terrorist screening nomination
    includes persons who:

     Commit international terrorist activity;

     Prepare or plan international terrorist activity;

     Gather information on potential targets for international
    terrorist activity;

     Solicit funds or other things of value for international
    terrorist activity or a terrorist organization;

     Solicit membership in an international terrorist
    organization;

     Provide material support, e.g., safe house, transportation,
    communications, funds, transfer of funds or other material
    financial benefit, false documentation or identification,
    weapons, explosives, or training;

     Are members of or represent a foreign terrorist
    organization.
    So.... yes. If you are a member of al-Qa'ida, or Jemaah Islamiyah, or the Abu Sayyef Group, or Lashkar e-Taiba, or ISIL, well, you might end up in TIDE even if you haven't attacked the United States. The horrors

    It's a reporting database. If your name is mentioned on a report focusing on Boko Haram leader Abubakr Shekau in a manner such as:

    "Also attending the meeting to discuss the need to kidnap more girls from Chibok were Abu-McJihad, Abu-McKillTheInfidel, and Abu-McDonald", well, all three of those individuals are now also "in TIDE", because the report is.
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-30-14 at 01:29 PM.

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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    hysterics only discredit your argument.


    For those of you who want to read more, the database they are discussing is TIDE, which is maintained by the NCTC.

    The basic factsheet: available to the public.

    Critical pull-out:



    So.... yes. If you are a member of al-Qa'ida, or Jemaah Islamiyah, or the Abu Sayyef Group, or Lashkar e-Taiba, or ISIL, well, you might end up in TIDE even if you haven't attacked the United States. The horrors
    This article is not just about TIDE.. Its mainly about the Watchlist Guidelines


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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    This article is not just about TIDE.. Its mainly about the Watchlist Guidelines


    Dude. That's like saying that the article isn't about the upcoming elections in November, it's about the 2014 midterms.




    Look, man, from one of the sources I gave you:

    ...From the classified TIDE database, an unclassified, but sensitive, extract is provided to the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, which compiles the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB).
    That's the watchlist. Those guidelines I cited above? That's them.

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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    Dude. That's like saying that the article isn't about the upcoming elections in November, it's about the 2014 midterms.




    Look, man, from one of the sources I gave you:



    That's the watchlist. Those guidelines I cited above? That's them.
    No. As stated earlier TIDE is merely a database. It is not the only database nor a complete database.


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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No. As stated earlier TIDE is merely a database. It is not the only database nor a complete database.
    NCTC manages TIDE. They don't own the No Fly List or the Unclass Watchlist, which is a UBS extract that is given to the FBI. So when you are talking about NCTC's watchlisting guidelines, you are talking about what they put into TIDE.


    Check out your source:

    ...The “March 2013 Watchlisting Guidance,” a 166-page document issued last year by the National Counterterrorism Center, spells out the government’s secret rules for putting individuals on its main terrorist database, as well as the no fly list and the selectee list, which triggers enhanced screening at airports and border crossing...
    and plain Jane ole Wikipedia:

    ...From the classified TIDE database, an unclassified, but sensitive, extract is provided to the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, which compiles the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB).

    This database, in turn, is used to compile various watch lists such as the TSA's No Fly List, State Department's Consular Lookout and Support System, Homeland Security's Interagency Border Inspection System, and FBI's NCIC (National Crime Information Center) for state and local law enforcement...

    See how they are saying the same thing? NCTC owns TIDE. NCTC guidelines are therefore about TIDE. So the Watchlist you are discussing... is TIDE.






    This has been available open source for years. You fell victim to click-bait, dude.

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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    NCTC manages TIDE. They don't own the No Fly List or the Unclass Watchlist, which is a UBS extract that is given to the FBI. So when you are talking about NCTC's watchlisting guidelines, you are talking about what they put into TIDE.


    Check out your source:



    and plain Jane ole Wikipedia:




    See how they are saying the same thing? NCTC owns TIDE. NCTC guidelines are therefore about TIDE. So the Watchlist you are discussing... is TIDE.






    This has been available open source for years. You fell victim to click-bait, dude.
    "The government has created several other databases, too. The largest is the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment (TIDE), which gathers terrorism information from sensitive military and intelligence sources around the world. Because it contains classified information that cannot be widely distributed, there is yet another list, the Terrorist Screening Database, or TSDB, which has been stripped of TIDE’s classified data so that it can be shared."


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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "The government has created several other databases, too. The largest is the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment (TIDE), which gathers terrorism information from sensitive military and intelligence sources around the world. Because it contains classified information that cannot be widely distributed, there is yet another list, the Terrorist Screening Database, or TSDB, which has been stripped of TIDE’s classified data so that it can be shared."
    Hey, look at that! It almost looks like you read the source-material I gave you!

    Hey, who owns the TSDB?

    ....From the classified TIDE database, an unclassified, but sensitive, extract is provided to the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center, which compiles the Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB)....
    Huh.... looks like the FBI. Not NCTC.

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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    ......so....... are we admitting yet that this is just hyperbolic click-bait?

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    Re: The secret government rulebook for labeling you a terrorist

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    hysterics only discredit your argument.


    For those of you who want to read more, it looks like the database they are discussing is TIDE, which is maintained by the NCTC.

    The TIDE basic factsheet.




    So.... yes. If you are a member of al-Qa'ida, or Jemaah Islamiyah, or the Abu Sayyef Group, or Lashkar e-Taiba, or ISIL, well, you might end up in TIDE even if you haven't attacked the United States. The horrors

    It's a reporting database. If your name is mentioned on a report focusing on Boko Haram leader Abubakr Shekau in a manner such as:

    "Also attending the meeting to discuss the need to kidnap more girls from Chibok were Abu-McJihad, Abu-McKillTheInfidel, and Abu-McDonald", well, all three of those individuals are now also "in TIDE", because the report is.
    You mean to tell me that if I join a terrorist organization, attend meetings and plan a terrorist attack I can be put on a watch list?

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