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Thread: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Whaaaa? Huh? Grant, you are the very person who found the link proving the OP story to be loads of bull****, as in it didn't happen. It wasn't a handout, no one gave it to the kid. It wasn't used in class. Remember the link YOU provided? And now you want to argue the facts that don't exist?
    I said the op may have some truth to it, which means it mat have truth in some areas. I believe, in total, it is untrue..

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Read my third paragraph I edited. I'm sorry Im not quick enough.
    I'm using an iPad mini with Tapatalk and I canonly see a limited
    amount of space for some reason.

    What I will say is that critical history is important, but it is dependent upon age.
    The younger you are, the more emphasis should be on simplifying
    the message you wish to teach. You can be multicultural without being spiteful or cynical.

    The older you are, the more complicated history should become. Furthermore, the problem with some of this is that people use a slightly historicist perspective, but only when it suits the agenda. The relativism only shows up enough to support, for instance, the idea that critiquing white American power structures is bad. Sudenly that is because it's the 19th century vs. the 21st. Yet, in many other subjects, those qualms go away really quickly. This is because it doesn't suit the agenda. It's not a consistent application of historicism.

    Right wingers tend to have few qualms with critiquing Margret Sanger on the same grounds. Historicism would dictate that Sanger would be held to her time. COnversely, many Left wingers, so intent on critiquing the past with the current lens because it impacts us, become mum about this when their intent is to defend one of their heroes.

    When it doesn't suit the political agenda, people tend to bend to what they want history to be.
    Thank you. Perhaps we agree on what is needed is perspective.

    I've seen MLK criticized because he was a "womanizer" but, after all that he did, who cares? Certainly he was more than that to the nation, and his people, and that is how he should be remembered. The rest is for serious historians who are more interested in the minutiae of a person's life.

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    School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Thank you. Perhaps we agree on what is needed is perspective.

    I've seen MLK criticized because he was a "womanizer" but, after all that he did, who cares? Certainly he was more than that to the nation, and his people, and that is how he should be remembered. The rest is for serious historians who are more interested in the minutiae of a person's life.
    That criticism of MLK is interesting in much the same way that I'd look at the family life of Ben Franklin (which was also not pretty). However, I would tend to look at MLK's more political features and his tactical choices for potential areas of criticism. I like much of MLK's views, but there is some I have open problems with. I don't really hold back with that. In the classroom, I would hold back of course. I might, on the side, for instance, indicate that his form of protest did carry within it some serious legal and ethical concerns, but that is done so students know that such protests often come at a cost. The cost is often being in open violation of the law, with the consequences including jail time. The other part of it would include what dangers may come to the participants--and whether or not Civil Rights Movement leaders in certain areas were ethically justified in including children in these potentially dangerous protests.

    You have to be careful with how you bring forth those discussions in class, to make sure you don't give them a partisan impression....but it's not a bad idea to challenge them when they are older (in high school or in an AP course).
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Wait, so your saying that morality is relative.....
    How can a claim of racism be made against people, who died before racism existed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Cause it's stupid.
    Wow! There's a solid argument! Never expected you say, "stuoid".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    That criticism of MLK is interesting in much the same way that I'd look at the family life of Ben Franklin (which was also not pretty). However, I would tend to look at MLK's more political features and his tactical choices for potential areas of criticism. I like much of MLK's views, but there is some I have open problems with. I don't really hold back with that. In the classroom, I would hold back of course. I might, on the side, for instance, indicate that his form of protest did carry within it some serious legal and ethical concerns, but that is done so students know that such protests often come at a cost. The cost is often being in open violation of the law, with the consequences including jail time. The other part of it would include what dangers may come to the participants--and whether or not Civil Rights Movement leaders in certain areas were ethically justified in including children in these potentially dangerous protests.

    You have to be careful with how you bring forth those discussions in class, to make sure you don't give them a partisan impression....but it's not a bad idea to challenge them when they are older (in high school or in an AP course).
    What I know is that MLK inspired his people when they needed it most and that there was no one else around who could do that. Rosa Parks certainly was an inspiration but she was no public speaker, and had no tactics. He was the right man at the right time and, to me anyway, a great man for what he accomplished. The rest is gossip.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact I've read a great deal of US history and my education has served me well. But of course you are wandering away from the topic which suggests you may have confused a few of these lessons along the way yourself, demonstrating once again the problems in the US educational system.
    I have wandered away from literally nothing, as I directly and specifically addressed your quoted post.

    Why you want to make it personal is beyond me though...
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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How can a claim of racism be made against people, who died before racism existed?
    Wait... did I actually read this correctly? Before racism existed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Wait... did I actually read this correctly? Before racism existed?
    Racism wasn't 'til those black people got involved. Until then, well and when they were kept as animals, everything was peachy keen. Don't you know any history?

    Racism pretty much began with Obama. It's been all downhill from there.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Well a lot of them owned slaves.... So yea...


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