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Thread: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

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    Re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They don't have to 'emphasize" it.
    The vast majority dont. The teaching of history should be about no agenda except the teaching of facts from the past. Anything other than that is just propaganda.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    The vast majority dont. The teaching of history should be about no agenda except the teaching of facts from the past. Anything other than that is just propaganda.
    I cannot help but notice that patriotism in America has been on the skids for the last generation or more, and the number of heroes for succeeding generations to look up to has declined.

    Every nation needs heroes to inspire successive generations as to what a successful and productive life means. Now the heroes in the United States are not George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln but celebrities, and the more debauched they are the more celebrated they often become. We search for the flaws in our heroes rather than celebrating their achievements.

    Maybe teaching that Washington held slaves is all to the good, or that MLK was a womanizer, or that Jackie Robinson had a bad temper, the warts and all theory, but I'm not sure I see the advantage, unless it applies to biographers and students who have a deeper interest in these people and are of an age where they've developed some perspective.

    The American culture has become more shabby, and it might be that their heroes have become more shabby also.

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    Re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I cannot help but notice that patriotism in America has been on the skids for the last generation or more, and the number of heroes for succeeding generations to look up to has declined.

    Every nation needs heroes to inspire successive generations as to what a successful and productive life means. Now the heroes in the United States are not George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln but celebrities, and the more debauched they are the more celebrated they often become. We search for the flaws in our heroes rather than celebrating their achievements.

    Maybe teaching that Washington held slaves is all to the good, or that MLK was a womanizer, or that Jackie Robinson had a bad temper, the warts and all theory, but I'm not sure I see the advantage, unless it applies to biographers and students who have a deeper interest in these people and are of an age where they've developed some perspective.

    The American culture has become more shabby, and it might be that their heroes have become more shabby also.
    I do agree the people we tend to "look up to" nowadays are poor role models. However, I am not convinced this is the result of a more critical look at historical figures. When did you first realize your father was not a perfect person? Was he no longer your role model afterwards?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I do agree the people we tend to "look up to" nowadays are poor role models. However, I am not convinced this is the result of a more critical look at historical figures. When did you first realize your father was not a perfect person? Was he no longer your role model afterwards?
    In fact my father left when I was a child so my heroes were in sports, the men who tried their best and showed no fear.

    When I became a father I mimicked those who were good fathers in the movies or on TV. I was then able to draw from them and became, according to my sons, a good father myself. I needed role models though, just as most children do, but who do we have now? The sports heroes? Politicians? Cowboys? Celebrities? Even TV fathers tend to be wimps, ridiculed by their wives and children.

    But I may be making too much of this. If I can be a hero to my own children, and they don't mimic the celebrities of today then, on a personal level, I can be well satisfied.

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    Re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact my father left when I was a child
    I am sorry to hear that.

    so my heroes were in sports, the men who tried their best and showed no fear.
    Fair enough. But should we bury our heads in the sand when one of our sports heroes throws his teammates under the bus? Cheats on his wife? Gambles his money away? Or even murders someone? I'm sure there were many young Pats fans who looked up to Aaron Hernandez at one point. If anything, we should hold these leaders to a higher standard and be very critical when they screw up. After all, what they do can impact the young mind of a child.


    If I can be a hero to my own children, and they don't mimic the celebrities of today then, on a personal level, I can be well satisfied.
    I agree, a father's presence is more critical than ever in today's society for the exact reasons you speak of. As a teacher, I see the effect every day on fatherless children. And even when a father screws up (which he inevitably will) the children will continue to respect him if he owns up to his mistakes. I have no doubt that if our Founders were alive today they would concur slavery was a horrific institution that went against the principles they were espousing. Students can admire their courage and strength while acknowledging their mistakes. As I said before, I have yet to meet a professor or teacher who focused more on the faults of America's figures than their accomplishments.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I am sorry to hear that.
    Thanks, though we know people have gone through much worse.

    Fair enough. But should we bury our heads in the sand when one of our sports heroes throws his teammates under the bus? Cheats on his wife? Gambles his money away? Or even murders someone? I'm sure there were many young Pats fans who looked up to Aaron Hernandez at one point. If anything, we should hold these leaders to a higher standard and be very critical when they screw up. After all, what they do can impact the young mind of a child.
    If one of my sports heroes cheated on his wife I certainly wouldn't have known about it. Same with gambling or any other vice. The press just kept it to themselves, and I'm grateful they did because, as a child, I needed someone to look up to. Of course murder is something else entirely.


    I agree, a father's presence is more critical than ever in today's society for the exact reasons you speak of. As a teacher, I see the effect every day on fatherless children. And even when a father screws up (which he inevitably will) the children will continue to respect him if he owns up to his mistakes. I have no doubt that if our Founders were alive today they would concur slavery was a horrific institution that went against the principles they were espousing. Students can admire their courage and strength while acknowledging their mistakes. As I said before, I have yet to meet a professor or teacher who focused more on the faults of America's figures than their accomplishments.
    Well, I hope you are right. I appreciate your sincerity.

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