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Thread: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The bolded part is correct (for many of them), and the underlined is not. The idea that Blacks were some kind of sub-human came into vogue in later generations.


    I bet it was blacks' fault too!



    where in our schools is the subject taught, especially compared to the other? where in our national public conversations do we make sure that we always point out that there were black slave owners in America just as there were white slave owners? You may get a brief mention of modern Islamist groups grabbing girls.
    Everyone knows there were black slave owners and everyone knows terrorist Muslims grab girls. What kind of idiot is unaware of these facts?

    Build a new strawman.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    And yet, quite a bit recently we see so-called conservatives absolutely flip their **** at the idea of anyone saying the founding fathers or America were anything less than perfect. Apparently, speaking about factual events like the "Trail of Tears" is some attack on our country. Telling the truth, to these people, is wrong because it makes America look bad, so doing so must mean you hate America. Nationalism run amok. Borderline fascism.
    When I hear collectivist dim bulbs do nothing but run down this country, again and again, oddly enough I suspect they harbor some ill will toward it. Not surprising, because like their golden boy President Pinocchio, they hate the Constitution and they hate capitalism. What little they "know" usually comes from their PC indoctrination in public schools by a bunch of '60's third-raters, from Oliver Stone movies, and from watching MSNBC. I've been around enough of these ignoramuses over the years, after they had a couple drinks in them, to know many of them bitterly resent almost everything American. Of course they invariably deny this, usually while shrieking "Fascist!" at anyone who calls them out for what they are.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post


    I bet it was blacks' fault too!
    Well, no. If you wanted to blame someone you would probably blame Darwin and the many, many whites who found his theory to be incredibly useful at justifying their own position vis that of other nations. But even that would be really sort of a weak construction - it was a theory that came into vogue because multiple drivers converged to allow it.

    In the meantime, I accept your strawman-esque attempt to divert to snark as an implicit admission that I am correct

    Everyone knows there were black slave owners and everyone knows terrorist Muslims grab girls. What kind of idiot is unaware of these facts?
    sure. I'm sure everyone knows this. Hey, would you mind citing any poll or other data demonstrating that people regularly see the information on slavery in an other-than whites-owning-blacks context? Because I can grab any high school history textbook to demonstrate my case.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, no. If you wanted to blame someone you would probably blame Darwin


    Because I can grab any high school history textbook to demonstrate my case.
    They all note blacks owned slaves. Spare us this BS.

    There's no conspiracy against whites in highschool history textbooks. Your persecution complex is imagined.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    And yet, quite a bit recently we see so-called conservatives absolutely flip their **** at the idea of anyone saying the founding fathers or America were anything less than perfect. Apparently, speaking about factual events like the "Trail of Tears" is some attack on our country. Telling the truth, to these people, is wrong because it makes America look bad, so doing so must mean you hate America. Nationalism run amok. Borderline fascism.


    I tell you what, mr Truth Teller. You look up the dates for that Trail of Tears, compare it to the 1770s, 1780s, and 1790s, and let us know what you discover.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I continue to accept your inability to respond as an implicit acknowledgement that I am correct. Thank you for your tacit admission.

    They all note blacks owned slaves. Spare us this BS.
    I was in college before I found this out, and I went through public education in Alabama, where if anything you would expect a more pro-nuanced-approach to the Evil White Southerners than the rest of the nation. And I didn't even find it out due to my classes, but my own reading. I call shenanigans and again demand that you demonstrate your idiotic claim that slavery as it is discussed in the US isn't overwhelmingly about those evil whites abusing those poor blacks.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    So? The rest of us are capable of examining a historical figure in both historical and modern context. Just because you personally have a problem with modern context is no reason to pretend the perspective garners no insight.




    Blacks are not cows. They're people.

    And, for the record, the act of eating a cheeseburger CAN be judged TODAY as immoral, without cows proving to be intelligent.
    Judging an historical figure based on a morality that that was not operative at the time of his life will likely lead to incorrect conclusions about the person. It's analogus to changing the rules of the game after the outcome has been determined.

    What insight do you hope to glean about Jefferson by applying modern standards regarding slavery to him. Or even better to Caesar Augustus? Slavery was a completely accepted practice in the ancient world. Was Augustus an immoral man because we view slavery as immoral?

    Blacks are not cows. True but irrelevant. I'm not equating the two and you are smart enough to know that.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Were African Americans given the right to vote? Were African Americans given the same rights? No.
    No? Dude, you don't even know what the Three-Fifths Compromise is and your suddenly an historical authority on what rights black folks had prior to 1865?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Judging an historical figure based on a morality that that was not operative at the time of his life will likely lead to incorrect conclusions about the person. It's analogus to changing the rules of the game after the outcome has been determined.
    In life, the rules change. Pretending this is not so, and putting ones head in the sand regarding racism, is just willful ignorance.

    What insight do you hope to glean about Jefferson by applying modern standards regarding slavery to him.
    His morality from an objective perspective. I'm sorry if an objective perspective offends you, but it can and should be included with a historical context assessment.

    Or even better to Caesar Augustus? Slavery was a completely accepted practice in the ancient world. Was Augustus an immoral man because we view slavery as immoral?
    He was immoral for that and countless other atrocities. Spare us the idol worship.


    By your standards, some backwoods redneck racist piece of **** is not really a racist because everyone in his town is racist. That's apologism, not moral assessment.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 10-29-14 at 02:03 PM.

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    re: School's Nation of Islam handout paints Founding Fathers as racists [W:293]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No? Dude, you don't even know what the Three-Fifths Compromise is and your suddenly an historical authority on what rights black folks had prior to 1865?
    Coming from you the all might all knowing. But Ill ask again: Were African Americans given the right to vote? Were African Americans given the same rights?


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