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Thread: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Show me where Hillary Clinton said "the government creates jobs".
    Surely didn't mean that NO ONE creates jobs? Because, right after that she said that trickle down economics has failed. A lie used to prop up the idiotic idea that the government creates jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    There's no way a business could survive on 5%.
    Sure they could. Businesses can continue on 0% net profit...which, if you review my post, you'll see is what I was talking about. There wouldn't be any expansion, of course. And expansion would be very slow with just 5%; it would take a little over 15 years to double an original investment. This is why I say that 10% is better; it would take a little over 8 years to double an investment. 15 years is too slow and doesn't provide enough opportunity. 8 years to double seems about right.

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515
    I think the mistake is to confuse demand for happiness with what NASCAR did.

    Clearly, NASCAR, and more specifically Bill France Sr, believed he could add to the pool of things that make people happy by, in his case, putting everything on the line to see if he could accomplish that. The demand for such a venue as Daytona International Speedway did not exist. He took capital, under his personal belief that he could add to the happy pool. NASCAR is the result. The demand was created, where it didn't exist before.
    This doesn't address my point at all. Why was there a demand after NASCAR got started? The only reason there could be is that it filled a more basic need--i.e. a demand--that already existed. Ergo, demand, and the ability to satisfy demand, is more fundamental than supply.

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    That's fine; I just think that you're misinterpreting what she said based on your political leaning.
    Yeah, that's it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    If not private companies, who's left? Who's left to create these jobs? Seems only a single other entity, and that'd be the government, unless you can list a non-private company and non-government source of jobs.
    Now sources for jobs is whole other matter and hits the nail right on the head. Government as a source is weak in my view and shows a lack luster economy: bureaucracy is another sore spot with me. A strong economy means pleanty of demand and the jobs it creates begins the circle. And again; if the corporates and private employers created jobs we'd be up to our eyeballs in employment wouldn't we. Hillary was arguing against that right-wing meme, and she's right in my view.
    Last edited by jet57; 11-01-14 at 02:17 PM.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    That's not relevant. The question, again, is which is more fundamental: demand, or business? In the simplest case, demand fuels production. Ergo, it is more fundamental, because production can fail. There can be demand without supply, but no supply without at least some kind of demand. Businesses are on the supply side of the equation.
    Seems like you are putting words in my mouth. I never said, or at least I don't believe I've said, that business trumps demand. I said that they are co-dependent on each other, in that business addresses demand by expanding, and without demand, business wouldn't and there would be no jobs for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    I have to re-iterate what I said in my last post, however. It would be a big mistake to ignore the supply side altogether, and I understand that. We owe much of our economic development to more and more products and services filling more basic demands. But this doesn't preclude anything I've said previously--I take these points to be logically consistent, and furthermore, to provide a decent set of principles by which to guide economic policy.



    Well, they are now, which is part of why businesses are closing down. Investors still want the returns they were getting in the 90's and early 00's, so they're moving capital out, in large part to China, India, Russia, and into some restricted markets in the U.S. that still offer those kinds of yields (often with the illusion of relative safety). This is a practical problem, and for my part, I think we ought to be ruthless about stopping it. Wealth belongs primarily to whatever produces it. It's demonstrable that society as a whole produces wealth, not individuals, and especially not individual investors.
    So the investor and business, who take the risk, and make the investment, deserve scraps from the table, once the "wealth producers" have had their fill?

    That's not really sounding like a formula for success, there. Who's going to be motivated to invest in business for a reasonable payback? Are these "wealth producers" going to be able to pony up the capital required to start the ball rolling? If so, why haven't they?
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Now sources for jobs is whole other matter and hits the nail right on the head. Government as a source is weak in my view and shows a lack luster economy: bureaucracy is another sore spot with me. A strong economy means pleanty of demand and the jobs it creates begins the circle. And again; if the corporates and private employers created jobs we'd be up to our eyeballs in employment wouldn't we. Hillary was arguing against that right-wing meme, and she's right in my view.
    Again, if not private business, who, in Hillary's view, is going to be the source or producer of those jobs?

    If not private business, then it'd have to be the government, as you acknowledge, a 'weak' producer of jobs.

    Since it's a binary question, an either or question, and she's not choosing private business, then, logic dictates she must think that it's the government that's the source of jobs.

    Bottom line, she's full of **** on this point, and she's just pandering to the liberal / progressive / statists who believe that money grows on the government tree and falls down for them to spend, and that it's just a matter of electing the 'correct' people to government to make it happen.

    That whole meme that empty the headed sheeple keep swollowing along with 'business didn't build that' is just a pile of dung.

    It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
    The Man in the Arena - April 23, 1910 - Theodore Roosevelt Speeches- Roosevelt Almanac

    We need more people to "actually strive to do the deeds" rather than expecting government hand outs. She's pandering to those that want government hand outs. That's clear. Just as clear as that this isn't the path forward for the nation.
    Disinformation campaign? The Russian collusion meme pushed by the 'news' media, behaving as a political propaganda organ, hell bent to destroy a legitimately elected president to implement his agenda per the votes of the same electorate. Reference The Big Lie Reference Goebbels

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    She claimed that private companies don't create jobs. That leaves job creation up to...?

    I look forward to you completing that sentence.
    it appears you cannot meet the challenge and show us her statement where she said government is responsible for creating jobs ... allowing us to then conclude that YOUR statement was incorrect
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    it appears you cannot meet the challenge and show us her statement where she said government is responsible for creating jobs ... allowing us to then conclude that YOUR statement was incorrect
    Nice dodge. Don't tear an ACL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Hillary: 'Don't Let Anybody Tell You' That 'Businesses Create Jobs'

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger
    Seems like you are putting words in my mouth. I never said, or at least I don't believe I've said, that business trumps demand. I said that they are co-dependent on each other, in that business addresses demand by expanding, and without demand, business wouldn't and there would be no jobs for it.
    But they are not co-dependent in an important and relevant sense: demand can never be reduced to zero (unless all human beings are dead), while supply can be. Demand is therefore more fundamental--the thing that needs to be around first is demand and the ability to satisfy demands. I don't know how to be any more plain.

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger
    So the investor and business, who take the risk, and make the investment, deserve scraps from the table, once the "wealth producers" have had their fill?
    I didn't say that. But investors wouldn't have anything to risk in the first place if it weren't for them being in a society. And to the extent that all businesses invoke social costs, society is taking a risk any time a business opens.

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger
    Who's going to be motivated to invest in business for a reasonable payback?
    If that's meant as a rhetorical question, as it seems to be, you may as well be arguing my case. The obvious answer is: anyone who is reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger
    Are these "wealth producers" going to be able to pony up the capital required to start the ball rolling? If so, why haven't they?
    For reasons I've explained earlier. There's a perception that better returns for less risk can be had elsewhere. The "less risk" bit is right--there's not enough demand to provide a reasonable guarantee against business closure. The "better return" bit is also right, but needs to be remedied.

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