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Thread: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

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    US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    The Obama administration has until early December to detail its reasons for withholding as many as 2,100 graphic photographs depicting US military torture of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan, a federal judge ordered on Tuesday.By 12 December, Justice Department attorneys will have to list, photograph by photograph, the government’s rationale for keeping redacted versions of the photos unseen by the public, Judge Alvin Hellerstein instructed lawyers. But any actual release of the photographs will come after Hellerstein reviews the government’s reasoning and issues another ruling in the protracted transparency case.
    While Hellerstein left unclear how much of the Justice Department’s declaration will itself be public, the government’s submission is likely to be its most detailed argument for secrecy over the imagery in a case that has lasted a decade.
    “The only thing that bothers me is that we’re taking a lot of time,” Hellerstein told a nearly empty courtroom.
    At issue is the publication of as many as 2,100 photographs of detainee abuse, although the government continues not to confirm the precise number. Said to be even more disturbing than the infamous Abu Ghraib photographs that sparked a global furor in 2004, the imagery is the subject of a transparency lawsuit that both the Bush and Obama administrations, backed by the US Congress, have strenuously resisted


    Read more @: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    More evidence of systematic torture during our occupation in Iraq, and War in Afghanistan. We need to expose all of it, put on trial the perpetrators, and analyze why it happened and how we can stop it.






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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    More evidence of systematic torture during our occupation in Iraq, and War in Afghanistan. We need to expose all of it, put on trial the perpetrators, and analyze why it happened and how we can stop it.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]


    If there was systematic torture by government personell it certainly needs to be cleared up and published. What I have seen so far has not given me cause to believe there was more than very few incidence for which the term is appropriate. But there are people that want to make out there was systematic torture by the government and so it is good the more evidence is published.

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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If there was systematic torture by government personell it certainly needs to be cleared up and published. What I have seen so far has not given me cause to believe there was more than very few incidence for which the term is appropriate. But there are people that want to make out there was systematic torture by the government and so it is good the more evidence is published.
    With 2,100 photos, there must be quite a few taken at each of those few incidents.
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    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by d0gbreath View Post
    With 2,100 photos, there must be quite a few taken at each of those few incidents.
    That would be typical. I did a few torture investigations of the Iraqi's we were working with, and it would be common for (for example) me to send up somewhere between 8-12 photos with each piece of paperwork. You gotta show original discovery, individual injuries, whole of individual, receipt of medical care, etc.

    The President (on this one) is correct.



    What I find interesting is (given that we are already airing the investigations) why there is the need for "the pictures" of what they are already openly putting out there occurring.



    My bet is that folks who are pursuing the pictures hope that it will have the same effect that the video of that idiot football player knocking his wife out did - put a story that we already had in a more emotional context causing folks to change their minds. Picture v a thousand words and what that. The problem with that is that many of those people will change their minds and decide to engage in violence because of it.
    Last edited by cpwill; 10-22-14 at 05:28 PM.

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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Why take pictures in the first place? They will only incriminate no matter the content.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos



    I don't need no stinkin photos!
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That would be typical. I did a few torture investigations of the Iraqi's we were working with, and it would be common for (for example) me to send up somewhere between 8-12 photos with each piece of paperwork. You gotta show original discovery, individual injuries, whole of individual, receipt of medical care, etc.
    Wow. Imagine that. Right here on our little forum we have a guy who has actually done Iraqi torture investigations.

    I'm not going to argue with the expert.

    Nope, not me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Why take pictures in the first place? They will only incriminate no matter the content.
    It is a required part of any investigation into an allegation of abuse.

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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by d0gbreath View Post
    Wow. Imagine that. Right here on our little forum we have a guy who has actually done Iraqi torture investigations.

    I'm not going to argue with the expert.

    Nope, not me.
    i'm not an expert. I was just the dude who was responsible for detainee handling at the tactical level, and so the guy with the camera and the experience doing the packets. Hence, when we found the Iraqi's torturing someone, I was the guy who went and did the paperwork on it.

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    Re: US ordered to explain withholding of Iraq and Afghanistan torture photos

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It is a required part of any investigation into an allegation of abuse.
    After the fact? OK then why the transparency?

    It's been know for some time that if the enemy knows they will be surveyed/inquired/ tortured (and how) they will find means to overcome it.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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