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Thread: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants, Sa

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    But giving them the opportunity to show their buddies that the US is bombing women and children isn't helping them spread their propaganda?
    ....you realize you are talking to people who have actually been there when they kill innocents and then blame it on the US?


    we had a village where they slaughtered some cows and smeared them all over the buildings and - sure enough - got CNN to report Marines Kill 200 Civilians....

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ....you realize you are talking to people who have actually been there when they kill innocents and then blame it on the US?


    we had a village where they slaughtered some cows and smeared them all over the buildings and - sure enough - got CNN to report Marines Kill 200 Civilians....
    So your solution is to kill civillians since they think we're doing it anyway?

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    So your solution is to kill civillians since they think we're doing it anyway?
    No. As someone who has both A) been to war and B) done actual targeting, I've observed the processes you are talking about, and am pointing out that what you are saying does not match reality. US Forces do not go around just blowing up civilians, in fact, we go to great lengths and often risk our lives in order to reduce the risk to civilians.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary - drones have proven both effective and more ethical as a strike option.
    By whose standard? Children in targeted areas are afraid of the blue sky and exhibit PTSD symptoms. I'm not arguing against their effectiveness, just that they are a recruitment platform, especially how willy nilly and indiscriminately we've used them.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. As someone who has both A) been to war and B) done actual targeting, I've observed the processes you are talking about, and am pointing out that they do not match reality. US Forces do not go around just blowing up civilians, in fact, we go to great lengths and often risk our lives in order to reduce the risk to civilians.
    Your experiences are not universal. And yes, we do blow up civilians, but we just don't call them that, as if they appear to be of military age, they're then considered legitimate targets.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    By whose standard?
    The Laws of Armed Conflict.

    Children in targeted areas are afraid of the blue sky and exhibit PTSD symptoms. I'm not arguing against their effectiveness, just that they are a recruitment platform, especially how willy nilly and indiscriminately we've used them.
    the available literature suggests that the "bomb one terrorist, create more terrorists" mantra does not actually show up once you do the math. Nor do we utilize drones in a willy, nilly, or indiscriminate manner as you suggest. Quite the opposite, in fact. And the numbers also tell us that more children suffer from any other targeting method available. The options? They all result in greater civilian casualties.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Your experiences are not universal.
    I oversaw the targeting efforts for a Corps-Level Command. Hint: that's a pretty broad overview.

    And yes, we do blow up civilians, but we just don't call them that, as if they appear to be of military age, they're then considered legitimate targets.
    We call them "collateral damage" and their estimation is a part of every target approval process. And yes, sometimes we accept - in accordance with the Laws of Armed Conflict - civilian casualties as a known result of military operations, which can include drone strikes. Drone strikes, however, have the benefit of reducing civilian casualties to a minimum. The Combined Effects Radius of a Mitigated Hellfire is pretty tight.

    And generally, yes. If you are a military age male who travels armed, travels with, and acts as a bodyguard for a known Jihadi leader, we tend to accept that you are likely supporting that organization as well.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Laws of Armed Conflict.



    the available literature suggests that the "bomb one terrorist, create more terrorists" mantra does not actually show up once you do the math. Nor do we utilize drones in a willy, nilly, or indiscriminate manner as you suggest. Quite the opposite, in fact. And the numbers also tell us that more children suffer from any other targeting method available. The options? They all result in greater civilian casualties.
    Perhaps then, you're reading the wrong literature. But think of it logically and from a humanist perspective. A man comes home one day from working out in the fields to discover that his home is leveled and that his family is dead. If this was Star Wars, he'd be well on his way to the dark side.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I oversaw the targeting efforts for a Corps-Level Command. Hint: that's a pretty broad overview.



    We call them "collateral damage" and their estimation is a part of every target approval process. And yes, sometimes we accept - in accordance with the Laws of Armed Conflict - civilian casualties as a known result of military operations, which can include drone strikes. Drone strikes, however, have the benefit of reducing civilian casualties to a minimum. The Combined Effects Radius of a Mitigated Hellfire is pretty tight.

    And generally, yes. If you are a military age male who travels armed, travels with, and acts as a bodyguard for a known Jihadi leader, we tend to accept that you are likely supporting that organization as well.
    I was not referring to armed males. I was referring to those whom happen to be in the vicinity of those whom we were targeting. I believe that most of our major newspapers have covered stories like that: peeps being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being accepted as targets when they're not a la Gaza/Hamas predicament.

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    Re: Only 12% of People Killed in US Drone Strikes in Pakistan Identified as Militants

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Perhaps then, you're reading the wrong literature.
    Oh. You mean the kind that does actual analysis and stuff like that? Sorry, didn't realize I was supposed to be substituting hyperbole for reason.

    Speaking of which....

    But think of it logically and from a humanist perspective. A man comes home one day from working out in the fields to discover that his home is leveled and that his family is dead. If this was Star Wars, he'd be well on his way to the dark side.
    sure.

    Now think about it from the perspective that it actually occurs in: A terrorist leader and his two body guards get blown up while driving from one training camp to another training camp. Locals shake their fists, and that is that.

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