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Thread: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.....

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    Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.....

    If you needed a reason to not like Cisco.

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/0...ous-minorities
    Chinese citizens who suffered forced detention, torture, and a panoply of brutal human rights abuses at the hands of the Chinese government have been engaged in a high profile court case against Silicon Valley mainstay Cisco Systems for many years. Those Chinese citizens suffered yet another indignity in a California court a couple of weeks ago: a district judge dismissed the case against Cisco without even giving them the chance to gather evidence on the key point where the court found them wanting. The court noted that even though Cisco may have designed and developed the Golden Shield system for the purpose of tracking, identifying and facilitating the capture of Chinese religious minorities, Cisco would not be held liable because it didn’t do enough in the U.S. to facilitate human rights abuses.

    snip....

    No tech company should be held accountable when governments misuse general use products to engage in human rights abuses. This isn’t about bare routers or server logs. The case alleged and presented some strong early evidence that Cisco did far more – including:

    • A library of carefully analyzed patterns of Falun Gong Internet activity (or “signatures”) that enable the Chinese government to uniquely identify Falun Gong Internet users;
    • Highly advanced video and image analyzers that Cisco marketed as the “only product capable of recognizing over 90% of Falun Gong pictorial information;”
    • Several log/alert systems that provide the Chinese government with real time monitoring and notification based on Falun Gong Internet traffic patterns;
    • Applications for storing data profiles on individual Falun Gong practitioners for use during interrogation and “forced conversion” (i.e., torture);

    It also included a presentation by Cisco to the Chinese authorities highlighting the special tools Cisco offered for persecuting what it called “Falun Gong evil religion.” Using such terms about any ethnic or religious group in an internal presentation regarding a government project should be a red flag for anyone concerned about human rights.
    The court acknowledged these allegations, noting that the complaint alleges “individual features customized and designed specifically to find, track and suppress Falun Gong,” and that the tools were actually used for those purposes: “Golden Shield provided the means by which all the Plaintiffs were tracked, detained and tortured.” The complaint also alleged that much of Cisco’s work building the specific tools to target this religious minority was conducted from its San Jose offices.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    If you needed a reason to not like Cisco.

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/0...ous-minorities
    Chinese citizens who suffered forced detention, torture, and a panoply of brutal human rights abuses at the hands of the Chinese government have been engaged in a high profile court case against Silicon Valley mainstay Cisco Systems for many years. Those Chinese citizens suffered yet another indignity in a California court a couple of weeks ago: a district judge dismissed the case against Cisco without even giving them the chance to gather evidence on the key point where the court found them wanting. The court noted that even though Cisco may have designed and developed the Golden Shield system for the purpose of tracking, identifying and facilitating the capture of Chinese religious minorities, Cisco would not be held liable because it didn’t do enough in the U.S. to facilitate human rights abuses.

    snip....

    No tech company should be held accountable when governments misuse general use products to engage in human rights abuses. This isn’t about bare routers or server logs. The case alleged and presented some strong early evidence that Cisco did far more – including:

    • A library of carefully analyzed patterns of Falun Gong Internet activity (or “signatures”) that enable the Chinese government to uniquely identify Falun Gong Internet users;
    • Highly advanced video and image analyzers that Cisco marketed as the “only product capable of recognizing over 90% of Falun Gong pictorial information;”
    • Several log/alert systems that provide the Chinese government with real time monitoring and notification based on Falun Gong Internet traffic patterns;
    • Applications for storing data profiles on individual Falun Gong practitioners for use during interrogation and “forced conversion” (i.e., torture);

    It also included a presentation by Cisco to the Chinese authorities highlighting the special tools Cisco offered for persecuting what it called “Falun Gong evil religion.” Using such terms about any ethnic or religious group in an internal presentation regarding a government project should be a red flag for anyone concerned about human rights.
    The court acknowledged these allegations, noting that the complaint alleges “individual features customized and designed specifically to find, track and suppress Falun Gong,” and that the tools were actually used for those purposes: “Golden Shield provided the means by which all the Plaintiffs were tracked, detained and tortured.” The complaint also alleged that much of Cisco’s work building the specific tools to target this religious minority was conducted from its San Jose offices.
    Is Cisco locking up Falun Gong members? No? Then stop blaming them. If it wasn't Cisco that created this system, then it would of been someone else, possible even a Chinese corporation. At least in this instance it supported American jobs and American taxes.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    I am surprised it worked that well. Cisco is a great hardware company and makes the most reliable network equipment in the industry. However, they have never been a very good software company.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Eebul corporations. It's never the government, just the eebul corporations. If the courts didn't get them, with ALL the US laws that hold corporations and their officers liable for what they do overseas, they must not have done what they have been accused of doing.

    Other than that comment above, I don't know enough about this to say whether the courts were right or wrong in their conclusion.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Is Cisco locking up Falun Gong members? No?
    Cisco created the system for the purpose of locking them up. This is not the same thing as a company who makes cars and someone used one of those cars to run down a bunch of innocent people.

    Then stop blaming them.
    That is like saying don't blame the terrorist who made the bomb for the expressed purposes of killing innocent people.

    If it wasn't Cisco that created this system, then it would of been someone else, possible even a Chinese corporation.
    If Chester a child rapist didn't rape that child then someone else would have. If a guy didn't beat the living **** out of his girlfriend then someone else would have. If some thug didn't steal your car then someone else would have. The if they didn't do it someone else would have is the most idiotic ride in the back of the short bus der dee der ****ed up reason to something.

    At least in this instance it supported American jobs and American taxes.
    I do not want American companies committing evil overseas nor do I want then aiding in evil overseas.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    I believe the court made a very wrong decision. Cisco is clearly an accomplice in the holocaust of Falun Gong practitioners; the CCP officials will never see justice, but the least we could do is punish the Americans involved. There is no difference than if they aided Nazis track down Jews.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    There is no difference than if they aided Nazis track down Jews.
    I certainly hope you are aware of the precedent IBM set with Nazi Germany.

    <Link>

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    I certainly hope you are aware of the precedent IBM set with Nazi Germany.

    <Link>
    Or Ford, or Chase Manhattan Bank or Coca Cola or Standard oil, or Random House publishing.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    It begs the question, doesn't it?


    If someone hires me to kill a guy, who's in more trouble? Me, for doing my job, or my employer?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Another question....



    Is anything Cisco did illegal....in China?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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