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Thread: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.....

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    The District Court Judge probably wasn't willing to make a sweeping claim of jurisdiction on a matter that hasn't been adequately resolved by the higher courts. Issues of contacts and touch are some of the most important in American jurisprudence and it seems like the law remains vague. Let's wait and see what the appellate courts say.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Another question....


    Is anything Cisco did illegal....in China?
    The CCP are the ones who used it so, yes. There is no rule of law in China, well except when it suits whoever is in power. If you mean could a Chinese company do this also yes unless it somehow tries to undermine the CCP.
    Last edited by Carjosse; 09-22-14 at 07:31 PM.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    All of this murky business would be solved if we just held companies based in the US but operating overseas to the same legal standards that we hold companies that DO operate in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Eebul corporations. It's never the government, just the eebul corporations. If the courts didn't get them, with ALL the US laws that hold corporations and their officers liable for what they do overseas, they must not have done what they have been accused of doing. Other than that comment above, I don't know enough about this to say whether the courts were right or wrong in their conclusion.
    Our laws on these sorts of issues are not as robust as you might think. There is no corporate liability for active participation or complicity in human rights abuses committed on foreign soil.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    All of this murky business would be solved if we just held companies based in the US but operating overseas to the same legal standards that we hold companies that DO operate in the US.
    You are suggesting that companies should be required to ignore the laws in the countries in which they operate? They wouldn't get very far doing that. Who is to decide what higher standards means? Wouldn't that be a matter of culsture? When U.S. companies operate in other countries can they ignore competition in those countries? Do we want to hamstring them by telling them how they should operate? The government has shown itself to be competent at running businesses or determining how they should be run. I guess you can tell I disagree completely.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Is Cisco locking up Falun Gong members? No? Then stop blaming them. If it wasn't Cisco that created this system, then it would of been someone else, possible even a Chinese corporation. At least in this instance it supported American jobs and American taxes.
    That's a remarkably weak defense of Cisco and their employees who were as much a part of the process, and responsible for what happened to those individuals, as the torturers.

    When I read stories like this, I always wonder how the people involved in the project go home to their family and sleep at night. You do your job very well, and MORE people are rounded up and tortured..... Maybe a defense like the above is the way they deal with it.

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    Re: Court Lets Cisco Systems Off the Hook for Helping China Detain, Torture Religiou.

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    You are suggesting that companies should be required to ignore the laws in the countries in which they operate? They wouldn't get very far doing that. Who is to decide what higher standards means? Wouldn't that be a matter of culsture? When U.S. companies operate in other countries can they ignore competition in those countries? Do we want to hamstring them by telling them how they should operate? The government has shown itself to be competent at running businesses or determining how they should be run. I guess you can tell I disagree completely.

    I am fine with companies not doing business in countries that might require them to literally aid in human rights abuses.That is how it should be.Companies that willingly engage in or assist in engaging in human rights abuses should not be able to business with the US or any business contracted with the US. If a Timothy McVeigh walked into most hardware stores and ask the clerk there for the materials needed to a bomb the clerks in those stores will have the human decency to tell him to piss off and call the cops.It wouldn't matter if there was a handful of stores that would recommend and sell the materials needed to make a bomb.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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