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Thread: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Why is the liberal response always "more government?"
    Because personal responsibility is not in their vocabulary.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    You should read your own links:

    Filling in the gaps

    First, there is a need for research on carbon storage in ecosystems with surface- or mixed-severity fire regimes, where stand-replacing fires may lead to land cover conversions that could move the carbon from the forest to the atmosphere—possibly for centuries. Second, the landscape effects of fuel treatments on forest carbon storage need to be investigated. To fully understand the carbon consequences of fuel treatments requires a landscape scale study of current and projected fire intervals as well as information on regeneration.

    And Dr. Ryan specifically emphasizes the need for regeneration research: “I think that’s the thing we need to be looking at next. We [the Forest Service] don’t have a good sense of how this last decade of fires has actually regenerated. We need to conduct a broadscale study in a number of different forest types. We need to know what the probability of regeneration really is. Do we have a
    problem in this area or don’t we?” By continuing to work towards understanding these (among other) unknowns surrounding the interactions of forests, fire, and carbon, we can better refine our management strategies to realize significant carbon sequestration in accord with other land management practices aimed at improving the health of our forests.


    Sorry, but that would be referred to as FAIL.
    He is talking about the time it takes for a western forest to regenerate after a catastrophic fire. Stand replacing fires are not that naturally common and are practically unheard of in wetter forest ecosystems. Its 6th grade science that forests burn and release carbon -> new forests grow and sequester carbon.
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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    I think the turn on climate change will be like the sudden collapse of the opposition to gay marriage. Basically conservatives always are involve in rear-guard actions that appeal to America's worst instincts. But ultimately, the better angels of our nature win out and conservative policies are defeated. It has been true about every single major political development in the country, from workers rights, to women's suffrage, to the anti-war movement, to civil rights.

    Now, it's happening with climate change as Americans are finally rejecting the conservative's anti-science rhetoric and facing reality. The huge demonstration is probably the first in a movement which will result in conservatives losing on another issue.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by Meister View Post
    So your saying when CO2 is a leading indicator it's global warming and when it's a lagging indicator it's global warming?
    Might try and bone up on the Milanovitch Cycles.
    The vast majority of carbon not sequestered in fossil fuels, peat, and permafrost, is in the oceans. When we come out of ice ages, the oceans warm, when the oceans warm they cannot sequester as much carbon and thus more is released into the atmosphere. As more carbon is released into the atmosphere, warming is amplified. A good explanation of this is here:

    CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?

    You should look at what science has to say about a topic before you become so arrogant as to think that something has occurred to you that has not occurred to scientists that have spent a lifetime working in that field.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I suppose I could. But is that really necessary?

    For example, it's a fact there are tree species that use fire to propagate. The giant sequoia for one, and it can live beyond 2,000 years. That didn't occur overnight. With forested areas far larger than today, and no forest fire suppression efforts of any kind as little as a couple hundred years ago, why would naturally caused mega fires be only a modern phenomena?
    Good afternoon Ocean,

    I believe the answer to that question would be the forestry and underbrush management protocols put in place that ended many controlled burns and clearing of underbrush coupled with traditional drought cyclical conditions, coupled with encroachment of residential building and increases in human activity in many of these areas and you have the makings of some pretty serious man-made infernos.

    But there's no doubt that fire is natures way of cleansing the landscape and starting fresh.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Good afternoon Ocean,

    I believe the answer to that question would be the forestry and underbrush management protocols put in place that ended many controlled burns and clearing of underbrush coupled with traditional drought cyclical conditions, coupled with encroachment of residential building and increases in human activity in many of these areas and you have the makings of some pretty serious man-made infernos.

    But there's no doubt that fire is natures way of cleansing the landscape and starting fresh.
    We had that decades ago. The NIMBYs made us stop, and a congress centered on a East Coast forest management style took the reins away from the Forest service. The Sierra Clubs and the enviroweenies of the time hated controlled burns and forest management.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The vast majority of carbon not sequestered in fossil fuels, peat, and permafrost, is in the oceans. When we come out of ice ages, the oceans warm, when the oceans warm they cannot sequester as much carbon and thus more is released into the atmosphere. As more carbon is released into the atmosphere, warming is amplified. A good explanation of this is here:

    CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?

    You should look at what science has to say about a topic before you become so arrogant as to think that something has occurred to you that has not occurred to scientists that have spent a lifetime working in that field.
    Seems to me it's pretty darn arrogant to think you or they understand the Earth's climate system to any significant degree. We're only scratching the surface.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    He is talking about the time it takes for a western forest to regenerate after a catastrophic fire. Stand replacing fires are not that naturally common and are practically unheard of in wetter forest ecosystems. Its 6th grade science that forests burn and release carbon -> new forests grow and sequester carbon.
    It's standard logic to determine there are some who clutch at straws to hold on to an untenable position. In light of the author admitting there needs to be more research into understanding probability of regeneration, it's clear who is clutching.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Seems to me it's pretty darn arrogant to think you or they understand the Earth's climate system to any significant degree. We're only scratching the surface.
    Call me crazy, but I tend to think its a good idea to go with scientific consensus. For example, when it came time to vaccinate my kids, rather that looking at every crack pot site on the internet on the subject, I went with the official position of the CDC and AMA. When I was in high school and most of my friends took up smoking, I supposed I could have bought into the claims by tobacco companies that there was no proven link between tobacco use and cancer, but I figured it was best to go with what the AMA and the American Lung Association said about it. When I shop at the grocery store I buy butter instead of margarine to avoid hydrogenated oils, even though 30 years ago doctors recommended margarine over butter. The way I figure it, no one goes to the doctor with cancer and says "Hey give me your best treatments from 30 years ago." Modern science progresses and I recognize and accept that. Similarly, when the National Academy of Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, The Royal Academy of Sciences, the American Geophysical Society, and every other major scientific society in the modern world with expertise in climate states that Anthopogenic Global Warming is real, and we need to be concerned about, well you know I go with them because frankly scientists the spend a lifetime working a field know a hell of a lot more about it than you or I do, or the WSJ editorial board does.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 09-23-14 at 05:03 PM.
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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    It is well known the Earth was covered by far more forested land just a few hundreds of years ago. Fire was so common, many tree species depend on it to propagate their species. Studies have shown that a single major fire releases more CO2 in an area than is produced by all man-made activities in the surround state does in a single year.

    Again, it has been estimated the size and unchecked nature of these multi year mega fires, and the amount of CO2 released, exceeded what man has caused to be released during "his" entire existence on Earth. So the question remains.

    Why didn't these massive releases of CO2 into the atmosphere have the impact that is being sold today?
    You're missing the forest for the trees.

    The fact is that forest fires have always occurred. A forest fire, or even several, including large ones, is just one part of the puzzle. What counts overall is the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.
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