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Thread: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Can you link the "multi-year mega fire" article? Most of the literature I've read states that mega fires are a new phenomenon
    http://sfrc.ufl.edu/cfeor/LogIn/log%...ga%20fires.pdf

    Typically listing the 1970's as the time frame they've started occurring.



    High-Intensity 'Megafires' a New Global Danger
    I suppose I could. But is that really necessary?

    For example, it's a fact there are tree species that use fire to propagate. The giant sequoia for one, and it can live beyond 2,000 years. That didn't occur overnight. With forested areas far larger than today, and no forest fire suppression efforts of any kind as little as a couple hundred years ago, why would naturally caused mega fires be only a modern phenomena?

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It's nice to believe that, if the government stepped out of the picture, people would fix the problem themselves. But you know that's not going to happen, human nature being what it is. For me, the big news here is that the lamestream media infotainment industry, which used to cover news, did not cover this event.
    It is human nature to weed out things that they do not support. It is the fault of the government that we do not act on these impulses. The government acts as a placebo and does very little to deter companies from actually changing their actions
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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    Is there any kind of environmental legislation you would support? Even reluctantly as a matter of pragmatism?
    It would depend on the legislation, I am not totally against the use of the government. But i feel as if that is the first impulse for everyone. I think that there should be a multi-front approach, with consumers leading the push, and a supplemental role if any for the government. I must reinforce though, the government only has jurisdiction over the United States, the government cannot legislate the world. If there is to be any major climate change progress made, it has to be an international coalition. Market forces will provide the necessary push in that case.
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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    It would depend on the legislation, I am not totally against the use of the government. But i feel as if that is the first impulse for everyone. I think that there should be a multi-front approach, with consumers leading the push, and a supplemental role if any for the government. I must reinforce though, the government only has jurisdiction over the United States, the government cannot legislate the world. If there is to be any major climate change progress made, it has to be an international coalition. Market forces will provide the necessary push in that case.
    I would tend to agree, but what kind of "supplemental role" would the government play in such a movement? Do you have anything specific in mind?

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I suppose I could. But is that really necessary?

    For example, it's a fact there are tree species that use fire to propagate. The giant sequoia for one, and it can live beyond 2,000 years. That didn't occur overnight. With forested areas far larger than today, and no forest fire suppression efforts of any kind as little as a couple hundred years ago, why would naturally caused mega fires be only a modern phenomena?
    From what I've read one major issue IS forest fire suppression which stops natural smaller fires from clearing out dead underbrush. In Florida we're really good at doing yearly controlled burning and even during periods of drought we don't experience mega-fires.

    Also, you typically need lightning for ignition of a forest fire in nature. Pretty much all of the recent mega-fires have started due to humans igniting a fire in dry, windy, sunny conditions.
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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I suppose I could. But is that really necessary?

    For example, it's a fact there are tree species that use fire to propagate. The giant sequoia for one, and it can live beyond 2,000 years. That didn't occur overnight. With forested areas far larger than today, and no forest fire suppression efforts of any kind as little as a couple hundred years ago, why would naturally caused mega fires be only a modern phenomena?
    Tree Rings Reveal That 'Megafires' Mostly Caused By Human Interference - Science News - redOrbit

    This is an intersting article on megafires
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    From what I've read one major issue IS forest fire suppression which stops natural smaller fires from clearing out dead underbrush. In Florida we're really good at doing yearly controlled burning and even during periods of drought we don't experience mega-fires.

    Also, you typically need lightning for ignition of a forest fire in nature. Pretty much all of the recent mega-fires have started due to humans igniting a fire in dry, windy, sunny conditions.
    The Forest Service has learned the hard way that immediate fire suppression has added to the fuel load, and harmed the ecosystem in the forests they control. While I vacationed in Sequoia National Park a few weeks ago, one of the big topics from the Rangers was their controlled burn program. They have learned the health of the forest depends on fire to clear out the ground, and provide the acidic soils needed by the trees.

    I don't know what the percentages are regarding man caused versus natural cause, but a significant number of fires in the Pacific Northwest and other forested states are caused by lighting. It doesn't take much to get a fire going, and with the tree ring records showing significant periods of drought going back over thousands years, it's not hard to imagine a fire burning from Washington State and on to Montana.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    I would tend to agree, but what kind of "supplemental role" would the government play in such a movement? Do you have anything specific in mind?
    I favor stripping of frivolous regulations. For example, the efficiency standards for dishwashers, among countless others. Once these unnecessary regulations are out of the way it will pave the way for the federal government to enforce other laws and regulations already in place. The penalties and swiftness of action can be much harsher because the government is no longer bogged down with these other violations. Essentially, I want to punish companies for actually directly destroying the earth and endangering people, and not for not meeting a certain standard for dishwasher efficiency. Legislation wise, I would support legislation focused on preventing the injury of humans. For example, if a company is dumpoing unsafe materials into drinking water, I have a problem with that. Those are the people we need to pursue, not manufacturers failing to meet a standard.
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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I favor stripping of frivolous regulations. For example, the efficiency standards for dishwashers, among countless others. Once these unnecessary regulations are out of the way it will pave the way for the federal government to enforce other laws and regulations already in place. The penalties and swiftness of action can be much harsher because the government is no longer bogged down with these other violations. Essentially, I want to punish companies for actually directly destroying the earth and endangering people, and not for not meeting a certain standard for dishwasher efficiency. Legislation wise, I would support legislation focused on preventing the injury of humans. For example, if a company is dumpoing unsafe materials into drinking water, I have a problem with that. Those are the people we need to pursue, not manufacturers failing to meet a standard.
    We're pretty much on the same page then.

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    Re: Hundreds Of Thousands Turn Out For People's Climate March In New York City

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    I would tend to agree, but what kind of "supplemental role" would the government play in such a movement? Do you have anything specific in mind?
    Hello, From my point of view, our next step will be using carbon neutral man made fuels.
    Using hydrocarbon as the energy storage mechanism, where the carbon is extracted
    from atmospheric CO2.
    The Oil refiners can make whatever liquid fuel is needed, and they already have the
    distribution infrastructure in place.
    The energy could come from Solar, wind, nuclear, ect, only now we have the ability
    to store that energy until needed.

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