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Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

Grant said:
You're babbling. I can provide evidence for everything I claimed. You called me a 'bigot' without any evidence at all and, of course, assumed your charge would stand because you never gave it much thought. I'm not surprised by this, nor even disappointed. I've come to expect it from the poorly educated rabble that is taking up so much space in the news recently..
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Ok, lets see it. Provide your evidence that Muslims are less bright than non-Muslims.
 
Hard Truth said:
You are free to criticize, but it is unlikely to be productive and can be counter productive if all it does is make people angry. Christians have done more violence than Muslims throughout history and the Bible contains as much advocacy of intolerance, oppression and violence as the Koran. Cruelty and Violence
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First off that's debatable, second, I don't care what Christians did 1000 years ago, I care what followers of the prophet do today. Turkey had to culturally destroy islam to become a developed country, about the only place moderate Muslims exist is Europe and Kurdistan.
 
tuhaybey said:
Ok, lets see it. Provide your evidence that Muslims are less bright than non-Muslims.
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Compare any secular country with church and state separation with Moslem countries turkey is the only modern secular country with majority Muslim population. Because Kemal Attaturk basically destroyed extremist islam, he banned the veils, banned the Arabic language, made the call to prayers required to be announced in Turkish and not Arabic. Oh and the Islamists who resisted were killed.... If you judge intelligence like your red state v blue state map just compare Europe with the middle east
 
tuhaybey said:
Not sure what you mean. You live in the US, right?
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Yes, I live in the United States. And I think you know exactly what I mean. I could not made my question any more clear, and your inability to answer it confirms what I thought. You can't back up your wild assertions, because they are products of your imagination and not fact.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Compare any secular country with church and state separation with Moslem countries turkey is the only modern secular country with majority Muslim population. Because Kemal Attaturk basically destroyed extremist islam, he banned the veils, banned the Arabic language, made the call to prayers required to be announced in Turkish and not Arabic. Oh and the Islamists who resisted were killed.... If you judge intelligence like your red state v blue state map just compare Europe with the middle east
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So you're unable to back up his claim at all? You have nothing?
 
matchlight said:
Yes, I live in the United States. And I think you know exactly what I mean. I could not made my question any more clear, and your inability to answer it confirms what I thought. You can't back up your wild assertions, because they are products of your imagination and not fact.
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How could you live in the US and be unaware of the discrimination against Muslims? Heck, what did you think this thread was about? Remember when the right tried to ban the mosque in NY? Do you not know any Muslim people?
 
tuhaybey said:
So you're unable to back up his claim at all? You have nothing?
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Religious theocracies are intrinsically less bright. Compare the number of universities, level of educational attainment, income, etc. a group of countries at islams spiritual and historical homeland (Arabia) sit on the worlds most important natural resource and they just Happen to be bright people who voluntarily live with less income, education and freedom, because their smarter? You have a problem in that you can read a textbook but can't reason, and when someone proves you wrong you simply scream irrelevance.
 
tuhaybey said:
Actually they've won 10, but the reason is obvious, isn't it- Muslim countries tend to be poor. That's all you've got? That was going to be the grand proof that your bigot-rage is justified?

What percentage of Nobel prize winners do you think are conservative?
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Your question regarding 'conservative' is only a poor attempt at deflecting from the conversation.

Certainly Muslim countries are poor and they are the most numerous countries for US aid. Have you ever asked yourself why that is so? Is it the fault of Allah, or just an incredibly poor educational system?

Accusing me of 'bigot-rage' isn't going to win you any debating points. In fact it's probably you who is feeling any rage right now. I only have to point out the facts.
 
Grant said:
Your question regarding 'conservative' is only a poor attempt at deflecting from the conversation.
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Hey, if your approach to measuring intelligence by Nobel prizes works on Muslims, wouldn't it also work on conservatives? Or do you only apply that approach when it is a group you're not a member of?

Grant said:
Accusing me of 'bigot-rage' isn't going to win you any debating points. In fact it's probably you who is feeling any rage right now. I only have to point out the facts.
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Facts lol? Kiddo. You blurted out that you think Muslims are stupid and then haven't been able to come up with anything supporting that. It's just vicious, stupid, bigotry and you aren't even trying to hide it.
 
tuhaybey said:
Hey, if your approach to measuring intelligence by Nobel prizes works on Muslims, wouldn't it also work on conservatives? Or do you only apply that approach when it is a group you're not a member of?
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Nobel Prizes are only one indication, though they certainly do reflect positively on Jews. That Muslim countries require so much in foreign aid is anther, that they continue killing innocent people (including each other, and their children) are more signs.
However after having raised these issues I'm prepared to hear anything positive you might have to say about Islam. But at this point it seems to be a bleak and joyless religion, a dead end detour from the road to spirituality and enlightenment..
Facts lol? Kiddo. You blurted out that you think Muslims are stupid and then haven't been able to come up with anything supporting that. It's just vicious, stupid, bigotry and you aren't even trying to hide it.
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Did I use the word 'stupid'? I have pointed to several areas where Muslims are rather backward, the evidence is overwhelming, and you are free to counter with some facts of your own. But I see you can't.
I should add that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries can do very well. Therefore it seems to me that it is Islam which creates ignorance, and has nothing to do with the race or sex of the individual.
 
tuhaybey said:
How could you live in the US and be unaware of the discrimination against Muslims?
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If it's such an everyday event as you claim, it's revealing that after being challenged twice now to provide any evidence of it, you still cannot.

Heck, what did you think this thread was about?
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This thread is about the First Amendment free speech issues raised by a series of ads a group of concerned Americans is trying to get displayed on buses in New York. I like them, especially the one that shows the Mufti of Jerusalem conversing with Hitler some time during his long stay in Germany. Maybe they were talking about the 20,000 or so Muslims, mostly Bosnians, that the Mufti helped raise for an SS group that murdered Jews for the Third Reich in Croatia and elsewhere.

The purpose of these ads is to alert the American people to the fact Islamic jihadists, whatever nice-sounding organization they may be hiding behind--CAIR is only one example--are intolerant supremacists who want to impose their way of life on the whole world. These Islamists hate Jews and unbelievers generally, and many of them, as the world is now witnessing in Syria and Iraq, are dedicated to unconscionable violence against anyone who resists their barbaric way of life.

Remember when the right tried to ban the mosque in NY?[/QUOTE

I remember that the Islamists' helpmates in this country, who don't like it any better than they do, bent over backwards to protect that effort to spit on the graves of the many people who were murdered at the World Trade Center on 9/11. The Muslim Brotherhood, acting through some of the front groups it has established in the U.S., is behind the so-called "Cordoba Project." They cleverly chose as its public face a man who wears suits and seems Western and moderate, but is an Islamic extremist through and through. Two of these front groups, the ISNA and the IIIT, have supported his propaganda efforts, including the publication here of an English-language version of a book he has written about how to advance Islamist goals in the U.S.

A couple decades ago, some of these same unsavory people were the guiding force behind a similar large Islamic complex called Dar al Hijrah, near Washington, D.C. Although most of the people who attend it are good citizens, which enhances its public image, this complex has been associated with various jihadists. Just one example of these was Anwar al-Awlaki, who was hired as imam there in 2000. Awlaki was at the time mentoring two of the 9/11 hijackers, and when he moved to northern Virginia from San Diego, they moved with him. After 9/11, he went to Yemen to serve as a recruiter for Al Qaeda, which he did until the U.S. killed him with a drone a few years ago. Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood jihadist murderer, used to work at Walter Reed and knew Awlaki from Dar al Hijrah. It was Awlaki, in a series of emails, who assured Hasan that if he killed fellow members of the U.S. Army, Allah would approve of it.

Do you not know any Muslim people?
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No, I do not. And I have no plans to change that.
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Grant said:
Nobel Prizes are only one indication, though they certainly do reflect positively on Jews. That Muslim countries require so much in foreign aid is anther, that they continue killing innocent people (including each other, and their children) are more signs.

However after having raised these issues I'm prepared to hear anything positive you might have to say about Islam. But at this point it seems to be a bleak and joyless religion, a dead end detour from the road to spirituality and enlightenment..
Did I use the word 'stupid'? I have pointed to several areas where Muslims are rather backward, the evidence is overwhelming, and you are free to counter with some facts of your own. But I see you can't.
I should add that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries can do very well. Therefore it seems to me that it is Islam which creates ignorance, and has nothing to do with the race or sex of the individual.
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Look man, you just aren't getting where you went wrong at all. The issue isn't like that you picked the wrong group to be critical of or something lol, it is that no ethnic group is superior or inferior to another. Period. How smart or moral or whatever somebody is isn't determined by what demographic group they are in... How do you not get this stuff? I feel like I'm talking to a second grader. Nobody ever taught you this stuff? You somehow just zoned out on all the cultural progress of the past 150 years or so?
 
Grant said:
I should add that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries can do very well. Therefore it seems to me that it is Islam which creates ignorance, and has nothing to do with the race or sex of the individual.
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Well, that's just stupid, since you're saying that Muslims (who follow Islam) can do very well when not in those countries.

I'd say it's the presence of theocracy, abject poverty and piss-poor education systems that are most responsible for these people's lack of progress.
 
matchlight said:
No, I do not. And I have no plans to change that.
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Well, I don't really know what to tell you man. The problem you're having isn't a lack of information, it is just that you lack moral values. I could have helped you with the former, but not the latter. So, best of luck with that I guess.
 
tuhaybey said:
Well, I don't really know what to tell you man. The problem you're having isn't a lack of information, it is just that you lack moral values. I could have helped you with the former, but not the latter. So, best of luck with that I guess.
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I don't give a tinker's damn what you think of my moral values, but I take note of your condescending personal insult. If you want to learn about the standards of civility here, keep making the insults you've been slinging around on this thread.
 
matchlight said:
I don't give a tinker's damn what you think of my moral values, but I take note of your condescending personal insult. If you want to learn about the standards of civility here, keep making the insults you've been slinging around on this thread.
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OK lol, so after insulting 1 billion people, not even one of whom you know, you're going to get all butthurt over being insulted yourself? Kind of ridiculous behavior, don't you think?
 
tuhaybey said:
Look man, you just aren't getting where you went wrong at all. The issue isn't like that you picked the wrong group to be critical of or something lol, it is that no ethnic group is superior or inferior to another. Period.
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Islam is NOT an ethnic group! It is a belief system, one that is clearly foolish, harmful and dangerous. Why not deal with the facts rather than cliched hyperbole?
How smart or moral or whatever somebody is isn't determined by what demographic group they are in... How do you not get this stuff? I feel like I'm talking to a second grader. Nobody ever taught you this stuff? You somehow just zoned out on all the cultural progress of the past 150 years or so?
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Demographics? How is that related to the points raised concerning Islam? And what 'cultural progress' are you referring to?
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Grant said:
Islam is NOT an ethnic group! It is a belief system, one that is clearly foolish, harmful and dangerous.
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Radical Islam is dangerous.

Reza Aslan is a Muslim. Are his beliefs foolish*, harmful and dangerous? Fareed Zakaria is a Muslim. Are his beliefs foolish*, harmful and dangerous?

* -- I'll even grant (no pun intended) you foolish, since I think all religious beliefs are "foolish," to an extent.

This is wikipedia's summary (not perfect, but I'm in no mood to dig) of Zakaria's post-9/11 Newsweek story, "Why They Hate Us":

After the 9/11 attacks, in a Newsweek cover essay, "Why They Hate Us," Zakaria argued that Islamic extremism was not fundamentally rooted in Islam, nor could it be claimed a reaction to American foreign policy. He located the problem in the political/social/economic stagnation of Arab societies, which then bred an extreme, religious opposition. He portrayed Osama bin Laden as one in a long line of extremists who used religion to justify mass murder. Zakaria argued for an inter-generational effort to create more open and dynamic societies in Arab countries, and thereby helping Islam enter the modern world.
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http://www.newsweek.com/politics-rage-why-do-they-hate-us-154345

Is any of this wrong?
 
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Kobie said:
Radical Islam is dangerous.

Reza Aslan is a Muslim. Are his beliefs foolish*, harmful and dangerous? Fareed Zakaria is a Muslim. Are his beliefs foolish*, harmful and dangerous?

* -- I'll even grant (no pun intended) you foolish, since I think all religious beliefs are "foolish," to an extent.

This is wikipedia's summary (not perfect, but I'm in no mood to dig) of Zakaria's post-9/11 Newsweek story, "Why They Hate Us":



http://www.newsweek.com/politics-rage-why-do-they-hate-us-154345

Is any of this wrong?
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A pretty good post!

Had Zakaria used the word Muslim rather than Arab he would have been spot on.
 
Grant said:
A pretty good post!

Had Zakaria used the word Muslim rather than Arab he would have been spot on.
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But there are Muslim societies that aren't stagnated. The Muslim societies that are stagnated are largely located with in the Arab world (Pakistan has degenerated substantially since he wrote that in 2001).
 
Kobie said:
But there are Muslim societies that aren't stagnated. The Muslim societies that are stagnated are largely located with in the Arab world (Pakistan has degenerated substantially since he wrote that in 2001).
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I know of no vibrant and forward looking Muslims societies. The more powerful Islam becomes the more repressive the country becomes.
 
Grant said:
I know of no vibrant and forward looking Muslims societies. The more powerful Islam becomes the more repressive the country becomes.
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Islam is no more or less powerful in, say, Indonesia now than it was 20 years ago. So why is Indonesia trending more repressive?
 
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