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Thread: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

  1. #201
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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    My comment was exactly what it was - it did not need deep misinterpretation on your part. To make it simple for you, just because a thief didn't rob the bank this time, doesn't mean the thief doesn't rob banks on a regular basis.
    The assumption that the person is a thief in the first place is where your analogy fails.

    If you KNOW he's a thief, you can prevent it. But if he LOOKS like he might be thief (or might not be), then what?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Sigh.

    First, Islam is a religion, an ideology. Not a race. Sadly, though, it WILL increase racial tension, because, well....people are stupid.

    Second, I confess to being a tad...split on this. I can't say that I overly disagree with most of the messages here.

    I don't know the answer. But I can say...a big part of me wants to just say "**** 'em" and kill every last Islamist, muslim, etc. And then move on to the Christians, and finally, the Jews.

    Learn to ****ing get along, or appreciate the reality that will be living with more and more people like me.

    We're sick of hearing about it. We're sick of fighting because of it. We're sick of legislation concerning it.

    Learn to get along.

    Or else.
    Where can I sign?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I believe these ads are dangerous in that they could incite violence against anyone who is outwardly Islamic and clearly many Muslims wear their religion quite clearly in their everyday lives.
    Do you have white Canadians that have been influenced to Islam religion and all of a sudden they let their beard's grow, and wear Arabian clothes?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Here in Toronto, on our buses and subways, religious ads are always controversial. However, if they simply espouse the "benefits" of one religion without disparaging any other religion they have been accepted in limited ways. The ones I've seen have simply been informational such as "get more information here", etc.

    Personally, regardless of your views on the topics expressed in the three ads posted in the OP, I believe these ads are dangerous in that they could incite violence against anyone who is outwardly Islamic and clearly many Muslims wear their religion quite clearly in their everyday lives. On that basis, I would oppose them just as strenuously as I would oppose some Palestinian support group who wanted to post ads condemning Israel for Palestinian "apartheid".
    Now that we're back on track (and I missed this comment the first time), this is exactly my reservation about these ads. I've been to NYC many times, and there are many obvious Muslims who are most definitely not terrorists.

    All it's going to do is stir up hate and fear. Ahmed sitting next to you on the bus or the subway is not going to cut your head off.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Here in Toronto, on our buses and subways, religious ads are always controversial. However, if they simply espouse the "benefits" of one religion without disparaging any other religion they have been accepted in limited ways. The ones I've seen have simply been informational such as "get more information here", etc.

    Personally, regardless of your views on the topics expressed in the three ads posted in the OP, I believe these ads are dangerous in that they could incite violence against anyone who is outwardly Islamic and clearly many Muslims wear their religion quite clearly in their everyday lives. On that basis, I would oppose them just as strenuously as I would oppose some Palestinian support group who wanted to post ads condemning Israel for Palestinian "apartheid".
    To summarize my take on yours ... I hold the First Amendment sacrosanct, but just because you can does not mean you should.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Sigh.

    First, Islam is a religion, an ideology. Not a race. Sadly, though, it WILL increase racial tension, because, well....people are stupid.

    Second, I confess to being a tad...split on this. I can't say that I overly disagree with most of the messages here.


    I don't know the answer. But I can say...a big part of me wants to just say "**** 'em" and kill every last Islamist, muslim, etc. And then move on to the Christians, and finally, the Jews.

    Learn to ****ing get along, or appreciate the reality that will be living with more and more people like me.

    We're sick of hearing about it. We're sick of fighting because of it. We're sick of legislation concerning it.

    Learn to get along.



    Or else.
    I overly disagree with the first one in the OP. Using an isolated incident to paint the portrait that every Muslim is a decapitator waiting to happen is inflammatory as hell, and not remotely close to being true.

    I also don't think advocating killing those who disagree with you makes you any better than them.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  7. #207
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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  8. #208
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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's fair - I only took issue with it because of its close relationship to religion. I'm all for public transit using their space to generate revenue to keep taxpayer costs low and rider fees low as well. You didn't hear any complaints from me about the other stuff primarily because I never saw anything posted about it - but it wouldn't have been a first amendment discussion in any of those alternate cases you mentioned either.
    I understand your concerns, but I do not see where these ads violate the "religious clauses" in the First Amendment. Not the establishment clause nor the free exercise clause. But to deny the ads would indeed violate the free speech clause which is also found in the First Amendment.

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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    That's been happening since before 9/11. Apparently we can't tell people with turbans apart here.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  10. #210
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    Re: Shocking Anti-Islam Ad Campaign Coming To New York City Buses And Subways

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    The assumption that the person is a thief in the first place is where your analogy fails.

    If you KNOW he's a thief, you can prevent it. But if he LOOKS like he might be thief (or might not be), then what?
    I guess my analogy fails because you didn't understand it. The "thief" in my analogy was not Ray, pictured in the ad - the "thief" is/was the advertising companies who, on behalf of their clients, frequently place subliminal, suggestive, messages within otherwise harmless ads. Therefore, the analogy was "just because this ad didn't have a subliminal message, doesn't mean that ads don't often have subliminal messages.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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