Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill[W:38]

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Henrin said:

Sigh. Review the comments I have made in this thread. What those articles reported on is the same dishonest trash I'm talking about.

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Dude, get out more. Go talk to working people.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Top Cat said:

Dude, get out more. Go talk to working people.

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this is all you need to know right here and why this so called equal pay argument is nonsense.

It's Time That We End the Equal Pay Myth - Forbes

The wage gap statistic, however, doesn’t compare two similarly situated co-workers of different sexes, working in the same industry, performing the same work, for the same number of hours a day. It merely reflects the median earnings of all men and women classified as full-time workers.

hmm that is odd.
i wonder why that is?

Men working five percent longer than women alone explains about one-quarter of the wage gap.

The second issue with this is that men and women choose different fields to work in. Women give up pay for more comfortable settings.
Men tend to take less desired jobs for more money. they work more hours and work OT something that most women don't do.

RealClearMarkets - Women, and the Unequal Pay Myth

links didn't copy over hmm anyway.

they are on page 4 they address this myth of unequal pay.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

52-40 was the vote. Didnt even get the dem votes.

NIMBY said:

This is what a Majority Leader McConnell has in store for women.
And GOPs wonder why they have a gender problem.

Senate blocks pay equity bill - Burgess Everett - POLITICO.com

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You do realize the Senate is Democrat controlled?

And there should be no "pay equality bill" - this isn't Lenin or Stalin's USSR.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

NIMBY said:

Besides accusing me of being in a state of panic, do you have any comment on the facts of the article; the quotes from GOPs.
Why do GOP Senators prevent equal pay for equal jobs for women?

If you want to see panic with 50 days to go, see today's very latest RCP polls . :lamo

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The Democrats control the Senate. It's time to stop blaming Republicans for blocking a Senate bill.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

NIMBY said:

Assuming your numbers are correct, why not debate this for a Nation instead of filibustering?
As McConnell said last decade when in the Majority, why not give Americans a straight-up-and-down vote?
Do you really think women can "negotiate" a better deal than men given the way women are still treated in this Nation ?

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do i think they can do "better" than men.....no

should they do better than men? no

should they do as well as men.......yes

"Given the way women are treated in this country" what does this mean?

are you treating women badly? compensating them unequally? i have about 30 direct reports, mostly women....and they are well compensated, and treated with respect

and if you ask most women, that is what they want in their job

to be paid fairly....treated well....and have the same chances as men for promotions, and new assignments

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Fletch said:

Perhaps this is news to you, but it is the female that bears children. Often the woman acts as mother to the child and removes herself from the workforce for an extended time. That tends to lessen her experience when compared to the male who didn't leave the workforce. That that said, there are places that intentionally pay women less like the leftist New York Times or the Obama Administration.

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No. If she is the best candidate for the job and they choose her, then she should get equal pay. Equal to what they would have paid to a man and equal to what the other people (corrected for seniority, accumulated merit, etc) in that job in that company get.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Fletch said:

He doesn't care. He is desperate to trot out any garbage that might help his pathetic party cling to power. It will only get worse in the next 50 days. The left still has to do something to get their blacks all worked up and out to the polls. So the 'republicans want to return to slave days' mantra cant be too far off.

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This is a discussion forum and few of us will be voting in his state.

Care to address the actual topic instead of blustering?

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

fmw said:

Because telling the private sector how it should or should not pay people is not an appropriate role of government. Let's say the bill passes. One of two things will happen. Either women doing the same job as men with the same effectiveness and seniority will get paid the same as men, or businesses will rewrite the job descriptions to show that the jobs are different and pay women differently than men. In other words, no change.

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You mean, like they did for blacks?

:doh

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

my accounting office has one out on maternity, another getting ready to pop, and a third in her 6th month

all have been with me for a number of years

it is part of what a workforce deals with.....especially admin/accounting operations

they are all great employees....and all will take at least 2 months off after birth (most of it without pay)

as their boss, it puts me in a real bind for a while

as a father, i try to understand what they are dealing with

women that have families will put in LESS time than ones without....and their careers often get put on the backburner either by themselves, or their spouse/partner

it isnt that they dont have opportunities.....sometimes their choice is family over career......i cant fault them for that

but i also cant be held responsible for them making less 10 years down the road than someone who chose the alternate roads

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

gdgyva said:

women that have families will put in LESS time than ones without....and their careers often get put on the backburner either by themselves, or their spouse/partner

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Then dont hire them at all. But dont treat them like 2nd class citizens.

If a man or woman is hired, one presumes they are the best person for the job. If they are, then they deserve to be paid appropriately and equally. In the high tech industry, men take alot of time off for their families too...because it's a fairly flexible and open-minded industry. They take paternity leave, stay home with sick kids, etc. If gender roles equalize in other areas, then women will miss less time because of kids.

But if the woman was worth hiring, then she's worth paying fully. If you dont want the chance of maternity leave, etc....dont hire women. See how that goes :mrgreen: (And I dont mean just EOD...overall, in ALL areas of the workplace and business.)

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Henrin said:

Even if people were owed what other people get for the same work the idea that women are paid less is a myth that has been thoroughly debunked.

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Please explain how equal pay for an equal job has been debunked.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Lursa said:

Then dont hire them at all. But dont treat them like 2nd class citizens.

If a man or woman is hired, one presumes they are the best person for the job. If they are, then they deserve to be paid appropriately and equally. In the high tech industry, men take alot of time off for their families too...because it's a fairly flexible and open-minded industry. They take paternity leave, stay home with sick kids, etc. If gender roles equalize in other areas, then women will miss less time because of kids.

But if the woman was worth hiring, then she's worth paying fully. If you dont want the chance of maternity leave, etc....dont hire women. See how that goes :mrgreen: (And I dont mean just EOD...overall, in ALL areas of the workplace and business.)

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so the guys who constantly work 60 hour weeks, and put in their time

they should be paid on par with "mom" because i hired mom in the first place?

really? are you trying to set women's rights back 75 years?

do you want them back in the kitchens, instead of the workplaces?

a woman is only worth what a man is worth IF she produces the same....period

in that case, by all means they should be paid equally

if not, she should get her productions portion of what he earns

what's good for the goose.....kinda that sorta thing

and we can go back to no women in the workforce....easily done

somehow, i dont think that is where you want to go

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

gdgyva said:

so the guys who constantly work 60 hour weeks, and put in their time

they should be paid on par with "mom" because i hired mom in the first place?

really? are you trying to set women's rights back 75 years?

do you want them back in the kitchens, instead of the workplaces?

a woman is only worth what a man is worth IF she produces the same....period

in that case, by all means they should be paid equally

if not, she should get her productions portion of what he earns

what's good for the goose.....kinda that sorta thing

and we can go back to no women in the workforce....easily done

somehow, i dont think that is where you want to go

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I've been salaried. What makes you think they are forced to work 60 hrs a week? It's not even legal. They choose to do that. I know...I sometimes chose to do it. And some weeks I worked 30...to make it balance out. But just because women are not 'in the office' doesnt mean they still arent working. Especially today. They are connected all the time.

When I was salaried, I'd go home and still keep working. I'd take sick days to stay home and work in peace.

The hours are not indicative of MORE work and certainly not of quality. It can also be an indicator of 'not working smart.' And men that dont want to go home and have to help their wives that were also working all day with the kids and the house.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

NIMBY said:

Women are paid less period Henrin--why do you deny this?
Calling me dishonest, which even GOP Senators don't agree with, doesn't change the FACT that women are paid less than men for the same job .

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I hear that is true in the Obama White House.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

I am wondering why in the world a company would pay a person less, just because of their gender. Also, how could they even get away with it? As far as I know, companies are not in collusion with each other to keep women's pay down. Maybe the answer is that they really are getting paid what they are worth.

Which employee would be worth more, all else being equal? The one that could be their longer to get things done, or the one that can't because of other obligations? The one that may miss a few days here and there, or the one that maybe out for extended periods and might not return?

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Lursa said:

I've been salaried. What makes you think they are forced to work 60 hrs a week? It's not even legal. They choose to do that. I know...I sometimes chose to do it. And some weeks I worked 30...to make it balance out. But just because women are not 'in the office' doesnt mean they still arent working. Especially today. They are connected all the time.

When I was salaried, I'd go home and still keep working. I'd take sick days to stay home and work in peace.

The hours are not indicative of MORE work and certainly not of quality. It can also be an indicator of 'not working smart.' And men that dont want to go home and have to help their wives that were also working all day with the kids and the house.

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no one is "forced" to do anything

you want equal pay

equal pay has to be for equal RESULTS

i could give a **** less if they do that in the office, their car, or from a ****ing casino

i measure results....period

And results are easily measured in my business.....and my office

results....nothing else.....results

makes life so easy when things are so black and white

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

gdgyva said:

no one is "forced" to do anything

you want equal pay

equal pay has to be for equal RESULTS

i could give a **** less if they do that in the office, their car, or from a ****ing casino

i measure results....period

And results are easily measured in my business.....and my office

results....nothing else.....results

makes life so easy when things are so black and white

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That sounds good on paper but it's not always reality.

There is a definite impression left when people see someone sitting at their desk all hours. Again...maybe they just dont 'work smart.'

And if it is about results...then why do people keep bring up hours worked?

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Lursa said:

That sounds good on paper but it's not always reality.

There is a definite impression left when people see someone sitting at their desk all hours. Again...maybe they just dont 'work smart.'

And if it is about results...then why do people keep bring up hours worked?

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usually the two go hand in hand.....

once in a while, i agree they dont

in a retail sales atmosphere....it really is fairly easy to distinguish the two

my so called expertise is in systems (making things easier, faster, better) and management of personnel

i dont have all the answers....never claimed to

i have stolen many more ideas, than i have come up with (on how to work more efficiently, and to get the most out of people)

it takes time to cultivate skills.....to build your portfolio.....

there are some people that can do more in a shorter amount of time.....they are rare, but they are out there

time is a necessary ingredient for most.....most, not all

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

gdgyva said:

usually the two go hand in hand.....

once in a while, i agree they dont

in a retail sales atmosphere....it really is fairly easy to distinguish the two

my so called expertise is in systems (making things easier, faster, better) and management of personnel

i dont have all the answers....never claimed to

i have stolen many more ideas, than i have come up with (on how to work more efficiently, and to get the most out of people)

it takes time to cultivate skills.....to build your portfolio.....

there are some people that can do more in a shorter amount of time.....they are rare, but they are out there

time is a necessary ingredient for most.....most, not all

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Who's allowed to work 60 hours a week in retail sales? Nobody.

And yes time is necessary....it's all in how you maximize it and doesnt always take place 'in the workplace.'

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Lursa said:

Who's allowed to work 60 hours a week in retail sales? Nobody.

And yes time is necessary....it's all in how you maximize it and doesnt always take place 'in the workplace.'

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Who's allowed to work 60 hours a week in retail sales? Nobody.

actually....in the car business.....almost everyone

from the sales managers, to the finance managers, to the people in the bdc's (bus development ctrs), all the way to the salespeople

some put in much more than 60 hour weeks

this isnt macys....or best buy

call any dealership in the area.....ask the top salespeople how many hours they work per week

unless they've been there 15+ years, and they live on referrals, they work a LOT of hours

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

gdgyva said:

Who's allowed to work 60 hours a week in retail sales? Nobody.

actually....in the car business.....almost everyone

from the sales managers, to the finance managers, to the people in the bdc's (bus development ctrs), all the way to the salespeople

some put in much more than 60 hour weeks

this isnt macys....or best buy

call any dealership in the area.....ask the top salespeople how many hours they work per week

unless they've been there 15+ years, and they live on referrals, they work a LOT of hours

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And are they salaried or hourly? Work on commission for sure.

They legally cant work more than 60 if hourly if not compensated by OT.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Lursa said:

And are they salaried or hourly? Work on commission for sure.

They legally cant work more than 60 if hourly if not compensated by OT.

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Yeah...I know the laws

I also know what my managers made last year

Hours are not an issue when average compensation exceeds 100k annually

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

Fletch said:

Relax, the world wont end when your party loses control of the senate.

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No, but Americans' lives will be made worse for it.

NIMBY said:

Saying that equal pay already exists is the very myth you already speak of.

Saying that women get equal pay is what has been thoroughly debunked--the opposite of what you said .

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Pretending that problems don't exist is pretty much the right wing way right now.

Re: Senate Blocks Pay Equity Bill

">>The raw wage gap data shows that a woman would earn roughly 73.7% to 77% of what a man would earn over their lifetime. However, when controllable variables are accounted for, such as job position, total hours worked, number of children, and the frequency at which unpaid leave is taken, in addition to other factors, the U.S. Department of Labor found in 2008 that the gap can be brought down from 23% to between 4.8% and 7.1%.[6]

The gender pay gap has been attributed to differences in personal and workplace characteristics between women and men (education, hours worked, occupation etc.) as well as direct and indirect discrimination in the labor market (gender stereotypes, customer and employer bias etc.).[23][24][25]..."

The estimates for the discriminatory component of the gender pay gap include 5%[26]:2 and 7%[27]:9 for federal jobs, and in at least one study grow as men and women's careers progress.[27]:93 One economist testified to Congress that hundreds of studies have consistently found unexplained pay differences which potentially include discrimination.[27]:80 Another criticized these studies as insufficiently controlled, and opined that men and women would have equal pay if they made the same choices and had the same experience, education, etc.[26]: Other studies have found direct evidence of discrimination. For example, fewer replies to identical resumes if sent by women with children than by men with children[27]:10 and more jobs for women when orchestras moved to blind auditions (though the data was mixed on this, since, in normal orchestra interviews, women were preferentially chosen over men for some instruments, such as the flute).[26]..."
23 Kanter, Rosabeth Moss (4 August 2008). Men and Women of the Corporation. PublicAffairs. ISBN 978-0-7867-2384-3.
24 Office of the White House, Council of Economic Advisors, 1998, IV. Discrimination
25 Levine, Report for Congress, "The Gender Gap and Pay Equity: Is Comparable Worth the Next Step?", Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress, 2003
26 "Justice Talking: The Women's Equality Amendment / What Does It Mean and Is It Necessary?". 2007-05-28. Retrieved 2012-03-13.
27 United States Congress Joint Economic Committee. Invest in Women, Invest in America: A Comprehensive Review of Women in the U.S. Economy. Washington, DC, December 201
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